Dear Swapnil
Please try to avoid making derogatory statements
I strongly object the way you have raised the point mentioning that I am not aware of Hindu Festivals
Please understand no where i mentioned criticizing about any festival.
I mentioned only that the person has to prepare himself whatsoever may be the festival
Do Not paint a different picture
Please learn to read the information properly & Reply.
It now makes us to think, whether it is you the Candidate
If that is the case, I am sorry it is difficult.......
From India, Coimbatore
733Please try to avoid making derogatory statements
I strongly object the way you have raised the point mentioning that I am not aware of Hindu Festivals
Please understand no where i mentioned criticizing about any festival.
I mentioned only that the person has to prepare himself whatsoever may be the festival
Do Not paint a different picture
Please learn to read the information properly & Reply.
It now makes us to think, whether it is you the Candidate
If that is the case, I am sorry it is difficult.......
From India, Coimbatore
Hi All,
Agreed with Bhaskar. Simple one bhaskar and correct remarks!!
Come on..This is part of recruitment, these cases may come.
We all know that cost is involved in recruitment.
If employee is not carrying the doc., it his/her loss (May be joining can after a day so the salary will also start from next day :-)), only it should be dealt with tact other than shouting or misbehaving or using harsh words.
Please Note:
->He has not misbehaved with anybody.
->He/she has not declined offer after agreeing on terms and conditions.
->He/she has not misbehaved during interview.
He is selected through a process (means he is technically fit and culture fit as well :),
So trust and then take action if trust is broken). After leaving one job, most people become excited (as one perceive it will be a new beginning, thoughts like I will do that or do this ))or anxious (if one perceive , oh!!..What will happen) or lazy (if one perceive, as there is new work)
An individual behave due to all these human behavior (based on his/her perception) and HR is there to understand. This is his/her job.
I am sure Hiring team (invested efforts and papers (tomorrow is earth dayJ), they followed org process etc and finally candidates joins) will be most unhappy if employee do not join due to silly reason that he could not be given time to submit documents in the eveningL .
Best Regrads,
Aishvarya
From India, Indore
Agreed with Bhaskar. Simple one bhaskar and correct remarks!!
Come on..This is part of recruitment, these cases may come.
We all know that cost is involved in recruitment.
If employee is not carrying the doc., it his/her loss (May be joining can after a day so the salary will also start from next day :-)), only it should be dealt with tact other than shouting or misbehaving or using harsh words.
Please Note:
->He has not misbehaved with anybody.
->He/she has not declined offer after agreeing on terms and conditions.
->He/she has not misbehaved during interview.
He is selected through a process (means he is technically fit and culture fit as well :),
So trust and then take action if trust is broken). After leaving one job, most people become excited (as one perceive it will be a new beginning, thoughts like I will do that or do this ))or anxious (if one perceive , oh!!..What will happen) or lazy (if one perceive, as there is new work)
An individual behave due to all these human behavior (based on his/her perception) and HR is there to understand. This is his/her job.
I am sure Hiring team (invested efforts and papers (tomorrow is earth dayJ), they followed org process etc and finally candidates joins) will be most unhappy if employee do not join due to silly reason that he could not be given time to submit documents in the eveningL .
Best Regrads,
Aishvarya
From India, Indore
Mr Peer Mohd Sardar Is very much entitled to have his views in the matter,as much as any other friend in this thread. It's an affront to him, if anybody in the thread questions his sense of reasoning. He has very much stayed up to his decency, by not questioning other participants views, but was then, quite forthright enough to apply his mind and deal with the subject matter, as according to some/certain acceptable role convictions, if not all.
If somebody feels, he is only fully correct and Mr Sardar totally wrong, why at all then we do need a discussion, on predetermined conclusions?. One's views in HR matters may be refutable in part or in whole. But what is required is some/certain amount of intellectual tolerance, while doing so. Like scores of HR issues, which do not have a wholly correct or wholly wrong answers, this case also falls into that category. Both the HR and the employee, have their share of blemish to be dealt with in this issue. The HR could have been more upright considering his higher position in the organization, while the employee could have been more diligent, and alive to his own cause. We need to improve such of these situations, and make amends there on, as much as we judge things/people as being right or wrong.
We are all aware, that a more optimistic HR thinking values and Management practices --- ' I am OK you are OK ' will moderate/balance, such of these odd situations of erratic dimensions.
From India, Mumbai
If somebody feels, he is only fully correct and Mr Sardar totally wrong, why at all then we do need a discussion, on predetermined conclusions?. One's views in HR matters may be refutable in part or in whole. But what is required is some/certain amount of intellectual tolerance, while doing so. Like scores of HR issues, which do not have a wholly correct or wholly wrong answers, this case also falls into that category. Both the HR and the employee, have their share of blemish to be dealt with in this issue. The HR could have been more upright considering his higher position in the organization, while the employee could have been more diligent, and alive to his own cause. We need to improve such of these situations, and make amends there on, as much as we judge things/people as being right or wrong.
We are all aware, that a more optimistic HR thinking values and Management practices --- ' I am OK you are OK ' will moderate/balance, such of these odd situations of erratic dimensions.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Swapnil,
Please pay attention to my current post. There is a twist in our discussions as it is getting complicated.
I read your post and would like to ask you couple of questions, where i am expecting your honest reply. Kindly don't cheat yourself.
1) You sound so matured in your thoughts and i found that, you are very much capable of handling this issue. But why you didn't try to educate your colleague about his attitude, since you are aware of your colleague's attitude and you both are working together, past 3 years, what made you post the whole story in this forum?
2) If i am not wrong, It is you who attempted to degrade your colleague and look at the name of your thread "THE HEAVY WEIGHT OF EGO OF AN HR MANAGER". .....why did you do this and what made you do this?
3) It is you, who revealed the NAME of the COMPANY and HR MANAGER, but why you didn't mention the name of new joinee....
4) Hello (the HR's name).......Do let us know, who received the email sent by new joinee?
5) If it is addressed to your colleague, HR MANAGER, how did you get access to his email, because, it is you who had posted the email content.
6) kindly don't underestimate any members of this community. Neither you nor the new joinee are the only person celebrating festivals, uniquely. Everyone in this world is aware of FESTIVALS because a FESTIVAL IS A FESTIVAL irrespective of the religion it is associated with. The only reason, why i am highlighting this to you because, while addressing such threads, we members of this community are loosing our unity, which is our strength and its creating distances/misunderstanding among ourselves.......
We members of this community are here to post our opinions......but our opinions cannot be taken for granted and neither we are compelling anyone to implement the same, strictly, neither it can be mistaken as well because opinions/suggestions are just perceptions/thoughts..........IT CAN BE NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE........again its up to the receiver, how he/she perceives it.........
I seriously don't want any member of this forum to teach anyone about LAW. Just posting our comments we don't mean to harm anybody.........
"If anyone says someone is wrong"...neither we are going to be wrong under any circumstances nor we are going to loose anything........we are matured professionals and should know that, discussions are only discussions but not DECISIONS.....
SENIORS/EXPERIENCED members of this community, need to understand, in which direction is this forum heading......I am not prepared to see this forum loosing its reputation because, a reputed member of this community(even after enjoying his rights) had commented negative about citehr...that's shows our mentality.......
Lets focus on the facts before we proceed further, let not be our comments "pre-matured". Its implies to me as well.....
Forgive me, if i was wrong........
Good luck to all...
With profound regards
[/I][/B][/SIZE]
From India, Chennai
Hello everyone,
We request all the members to address the issue with maturity and not get involved in personal disputes.
Swapnil has raised an issue for a proper solution, so please make sure that you all are here to solve the issues for Swapnil and other members of the forum. There are many members who are following this thread and any inappropriate language or unprofessional dealing is noticed by all. Just think before you write such language as you may be a role model for many new comers and existing members.
Making unprofessional personal comments over a trivial issue is not right. Lets get back to discussion and brainstorm to resolve it.
We Appreciate professional conduct on this forum.
regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
We request all the members to address the issue with maturity and not get involved in personal disputes.
Swapnil has raised an issue for a proper solution, so please make sure that you all are here to solve the issues for Swapnil and other members of the forum. There are many members who are following this thread and any inappropriate language or unprofessional dealing is noticed by all. Just think before you write such language as you may be a role model for many new comers and existing members.
Making unprofessional personal comments over a trivial issue is not right. Lets get back to discussion and brainstorm to resolve it.
We Appreciate professional conduct on this forum.
regards,
Archna
From India, Delhi
Hello Everyone,
Archna is right.
Frankly, I stopped following & participating in this thread after seeing things degenerate into more of scoring-the-point debate with the main topic/subject getting out-of-focus.
Though not exactly to the context, at this stage, this does seem to be akin to the situation we today have vis-a-vis the Jan Lokpal Bill--with the main topic of corruption getting out-of-focus & personal targeting becoming the main focal point.
It's definitely possible to convey, without any personal pointers, if anyone has apprehensions about Swapnil Joshi's motives/intentions of this Posting. Even Swapnil's original posting highlights the 'tone & tenor' of the HR person's comments--not 'what' he said [at least that's the way I looked @ it]. But along the way things seem to have lost the focus.
One thing Swapnil needs to clarify/confirm ASAP what Peer Sardhar has expressed--whether he is the employee concerned. For, if this is true, the whole debate 'could' get a different connotation & meaning.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Archna is right.
Frankly, I stopped following & participating in this thread after seeing things degenerate into more of scoring-the-point debate with the main topic/subject getting out-of-focus.
Though not exactly to the context, at this stage, this does seem to be akin to the situation we today have vis-a-vis the Jan Lokpal Bill--with the main topic of corruption getting out-of-focus & personal targeting becoming the main focal point.
It's definitely possible to convey, without any personal pointers, if anyone has apprehensions about Swapnil Joshi's motives/intentions of this Posting. Even Swapnil's original posting highlights the 'tone & tenor' of the HR person's comments--not 'what' he said [at least that's the way I looked @ it]. But along the way things seem to have lost the focus.
One thing Swapnil needs to clarify/confirm ASAP what Peer Sardhar has expressed--whether he is the employee concerned. For, if this is true, the whole debate 'could' get a different connotation & meaning.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Well,
Appears I have been misunderstood a lot.
First thing first, Peer Saab - Iam really sorry I hurt you and I would also like to apologize to others who I might have hurt unknowingly.
To clear of a few misunderstandings that many people may have about me, let me tell them
1) My REAL NAME is SWAPNIL JOSHI and IAM NOT USING ANY FAKE NAMES.I have the name "Swapnil Joshi" printed on my Driving License, Passport, I.D Badge, Credit/Debit Cards, etc.
2) My colleague and me are of the same designation in the organization,but he has been working a few years longer than Iam.
3) Iam also aware of the CORPORATE POLITICS and that is the only reason my colleague has got away despite many (Verbal) complaints about his PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT, UNNECESSARY EGO AND INDISCREET LANGUAGE. This time, he used all his negative qualities in front of a candidate who is much better than him in all angles. I can say this because I was there throughout the INTERVIEW PROCESS of the candidate and (s)he was good in all the ways, be it the Technical Knowledge, Communication Skills, Experience or Approarch. He could not take the illict language of my colleague, gambled with his offer which (s)he got from such a good organizaton and mustered the courage to DOCUMENT a complaint FOR THE RECORD against my colleague by mailing almost everybody whose mail addresses he knew.
I started this thread only because whatever happened was disgusting to the reputation of the organization and still I mentioned the name of the organization because I thought that this person has to change and the only way that can happen is by involving the TOP-LEVEL MANAGEMENT. Now almost everybody from HR Co-Ordinator to the HR Director are aware of this discussion forum.
Now I would like to ask all of us... FOR HOW LONG SHOULD WE TOLERATE THIS DIRTY CORPORATE POLITICS ? FOR HOW LONG SHOULD WE TAKE THE "LICK MY SHOES AND YOU WILL GROW" ATTITUDE OF OUR SUPERIORS. ? We all claim to be highly qualified but is that teaching us any moral values. No we are only learning to make money in this CORPORATE JUNGLE and each of us is becoming or has become a shark already.
I dont know what is in store for me when I go to work tomorrow, but I know I will atleast have some peace of mind because I tried to change something that is bad and we are used to live with it. I also know that many people will laugh at me because public memory is short lived. People in my organization will talk about this for a few days and forget, but this will definitely force the TOP-LEVEL MANAGEMENT TO HAVE A WORD WITH MY COLLEAGUE which will make him CHANGE HIS APPROACH and ofcourse, this episode will remain in my memory till I die because it has taught me a huge lesson. A lesson that we SHOULD THINK ABOUT atleast SOME EMOTIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS CORPORATE JUNGLE. This will make me a better person, only then, I will become a better HR.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
Appears I have been misunderstood a lot.
First thing first, Peer Saab - Iam really sorry I hurt you and I would also like to apologize to others who I might have hurt unknowingly.
To clear of a few misunderstandings that many people may have about me, let me tell them
1) My REAL NAME is SWAPNIL JOSHI and IAM NOT USING ANY FAKE NAMES.I have the name "Swapnil Joshi" printed on my Driving License, Passport, I.D Badge, Credit/Debit Cards, etc.
2) My colleague and me are of the same designation in the organization,but he has been working a few years longer than Iam.
3) Iam also aware of the CORPORATE POLITICS and that is the only reason my colleague has got away despite many (Verbal) complaints about his PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT, UNNECESSARY EGO AND INDISCREET LANGUAGE. This time, he used all his negative qualities in front of a candidate who is much better than him in all angles. I can say this because I was there throughout the INTERVIEW PROCESS of the candidate and (s)he was good in all the ways, be it the Technical Knowledge, Communication Skills, Experience or Approarch. He could not take the illict language of my colleague, gambled with his offer which (s)he got from such a good organizaton and mustered the courage to DOCUMENT a complaint FOR THE RECORD against my colleague by mailing almost everybody whose mail addresses he knew.
I started this thread only because whatever happened was disgusting to the reputation of the organization and still I mentioned the name of the organization because I thought that this person has to change and the only way that can happen is by involving the TOP-LEVEL MANAGEMENT. Now almost everybody from HR Co-Ordinator to the HR Director are aware of this discussion forum.
Now I would like to ask all of us... FOR HOW LONG SHOULD WE TOLERATE THIS DIRTY CORPORATE POLITICS ? FOR HOW LONG SHOULD WE TAKE THE "LICK MY SHOES AND YOU WILL GROW" ATTITUDE OF OUR SUPERIORS. ? We all claim to be highly qualified but is that teaching us any moral values. No we are only learning to make money in this CORPORATE JUNGLE and each of us is becoming or has become a shark already.
I dont know what is in store for me when I go to work tomorrow, but I know I will atleast have some peace of mind because I tried to change something that is bad and we are used to live with it. I also know that many people will laugh at me because public memory is short lived. People in my organization will talk about this for a few days and forget, but this will definitely force the TOP-LEVEL MANAGEMENT TO HAVE A WORD WITH MY COLLEAGUE which will make him CHANGE HIS APPROACH and ofcourse, this episode will remain in my memory till I die because it has taught me a huge lesson. A lesson that we SHOULD THINK ABOUT atleast SOME EMOTIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS CORPORATE JUNGLE. This will make me a better person, only then, I will become a better HR.
Good Day,
Swapnil Joshi.
From India, Hyderabad
Sticking to morals and ethics is a good thing and we will have peace of mind that we did the right thing. However, it comes with a price. I have paid dearly for sticking to my principles of not bribing officials in India. In the same way, we all have to be prepared to pay the price.
However, naming and shaming people and adversely affecting a firm by naming them in a public forum is not the norm and we will await to learn what really does tomorrow.
May be your detailed response was also prompted by my email.
Best wishes
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
However, naming and shaming people and adversely affecting a firm by naming them in a public forum is not the norm and we will await to learn what really does tomorrow.
May be your detailed response was also prompted by my email.
Best wishes
Simhan
A retired academic in the UK
From United Kingdom
Then you should have sent an email to the candidate from an anonymous email ID , stating that please forward your grievance to MD of VXXXX CO, and given the emaild ID of MD, CEO, VP etc, this would make that arrogant person realize his mistake and strict action will be taken ..
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Hi Guys,
Lets come back to the discussion what Miss Swapnil posted at first and now she says some thing.
First i would like to ask to Miss.Swapnil is she concern about the HR Manager or she want the solution for the situtation happen at her office.
coming to Candiate who joined very next day of accepting the offer, he might have agreed to submit the documents mentioned in the offer letter even then how can be so irresponsibile towards his duties, which are basic fundamentals. If you look into this how he is going to perform his duties in near futurr, rather then submitting the requested docuemtns he sent mail, showing his concern in polite manner. (which happen in closed room) which is in correct.
You / conern authorized person need to take proper disciplinary action towards the concern Employee on the very first day of his joining he done this and can you imaging what kind of problem your company going to face in near future. "Just a question, think on this". A Entry guy can give complain on very Sr. Employee in the Organiation what would be the situation for the rest of the Employees in the Organizaiton. I Aprreciate the Voice of Employee raised the question towards the Sr. that too on very first day of his joining .
I strongly agree with Rakesh and Peer Mohammed, for thier comments and suggestion for the present case study
Miss. Swapnil i would like to ask you one thing are your worried about the Indian festivals or the fundamentals of your company.
Let me commet on the Hindu Festivals, for that reason we (management) had announced the Holiday (Calendar) at the year starting and where this question arises that New Employee should forget to submit his document at the time of his / her joining the Organization
Ex; If you have to attend one urgent meeting, follow the very next day of Hindu Festival, wil your forget to prepare your presentation or simply give excuse saying that could not able to prepare the document being reason you were with your family for the festival.
Will it fulfil your fitment or what you are gonig to do.
Please be realistic and dont be so senti.
"No person was ever honored for what they received but honored & rewarded for what they gave"
"No excuse is an excuses to make an excuse"
From India, Hyderabad
Lets come back to the discussion what Miss Swapnil posted at first and now she says some thing.
First i would like to ask to Miss.Swapnil is she concern about the HR Manager or she want the solution for the situtation happen at her office.
coming to Candiate who joined very next day of accepting the offer, he might have agreed to submit the documents mentioned in the offer letter even then how can be so irresponsibile towards his duties, which are basic fundamentals. If you look into this how he is going to perform his duties in near futurr, rather then submitting the requested docuemtns he sent mail, showing his concern in polite manner. (which happen in closed room) which is in correct.
You / conern authorized person need to take proper disciplinary action towards the concern Employee on the very first day of his joining he done this and can you imaging what kind of problem your company going to face in near future. "Just a question, think on this". A Entry guy can give complain on very Sr. Employee in the Organiation what would be the situation for the rest of the Employees in the Organizaiton. I Aprreciate the Voice of Employee raised the question towards the Sr. that too on very first day of his joining .
I strongly agree with Rakesh and Peer Mohammed, for thier comments and suggestion for the present case study
Miss. Swapnil i would like to ask you one thing are your worried about the Indian festivals or the fundamentals of your company.
Let me commet on the Hindu Festivals, for that reason we (management) had announced the Holiday (Calendar) at the year starting and where this question arises that New Employee should forget to submit his document at the time of his / her joining the Organization
Ex; If you have to attend one urgent meeting, follow the very next day of Hindu Festival, wil your forget to prepare your presentation or simply give excuse saying that could not able to prepare the document being reason you were with your family for the festival.
Will it fulfil your fitment or what you are gonig to do.
Please be realistic and dont be so senti.
"No person was ever honored for what they received but honored & rewarded for what they gave"
"No excuse is an excuses to make an excuse"
From India, Hyderabad
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