Dear Palak,
You mentioned a bond period in your post and also mentioned that he broke the bond also.
What sort of bond that was? Also as you mentioned that he was a Sr. Engg. and you must have not given him any sort of training. I am getting a strong feeling that he might be right in saying that the bond was illegal and this is the only reason you are not able to take strict action against him. Otherwise it was simple you could have adjusted his salary against the short notice period.
I guess the problem is with your HR Policies and seriously you need to brain storm on streamlining them. Be on the right side of the Law and you will be able to take action against the employees who are creating disruption or indiscipline at your work place. Then you would not need to make false promises and this is the thing why i guess Saswata was not getting the clear picture.....
From India, New Delhi
314You mentioned a bond period in your post and also mentioned that he broke the bond also.
What sort of bond that was? Also as you mentioned that he was a Sr. Engg. and you must have not given him any sort of training. I am getting a strong feeling that he might be right in saying that the bond was illegal and this is the only reason you are not able to take strict action against him. Otherwise it was simple you could have adjusted his salary against the short notice period.
I guess the problem is with your HR Policies and seriously you need to brain storm on streamlining them. Be on the right side of the Law and you will be able to take action against the employees who are creating disruption or indiscipline at your work place. Then you would not need to make false promises and this is the thing why i guess Saswata was not getting the clear picture.....
From India, New Delhi
We give books,free internet access to open source P2P based learning platforms, subscriptions to paid online resources, video tutorials. We also bring consultants to guide from time to time.
About agreements: We formed it after studying other MNC firms agreements.
From India, Kolkata
About agreements: We formed it after studying other MNC firms agreements.
From India, Kolkata
You LEND books to the employees
Ask them to use open source community forums to learn (you are not teaching, asking them to take help of free resources to learn). So how is this a training at all ? They can do this at home without your help. If this is what you are doing, the bond is definitely invalid.
The consultants come for problem solving of your specific projects, not taking classroom sessions on the open source technologies, I am sure.
(Note : I do a lot of work with open source technology, so I know exactly how things work in it)
From India, Mumbai
Ask them to use open source community forums to learn (you are not teaching, asking them to take help of free resources to learn). So how is this a training at all ? They can do this at home without your help. If this is what you are doing, the bond is definitely invalid.
The consultants come for problem solving of your specific projects, not taking classroom sessions on the open source technologies, I am sure.
(Note : I do a lot of work with open source technology, so I know exactly how things work in it)
From India, Mumbai
How are you so sure ?!!!
Consultants sits with the team and spends time answering their questions. They discuss and learn topic wise. No defined structure or classrooms ...
(though classroom is also a good idea as it sounds better. I will do it in future and get attendants sign it (for proof to support bonds) to show that they got training worth $$$ ! and receive certificates as well. We were somewhat informal ).
From India, Kolkata
Consultants sits with the team and spends time answering their questions. They discuss and learn topic wise. No defined structure or classrooms ...
(though classroom is also a good idea as it sounds better. I will do it in future and get attendants sign it (for proof to support bonds) to show that they got training worth $$$ ! and receive certificates as well. We were somewhat informal ).
From India, Kolkata
Dear Palak,
Do not argue with such employees. Let him go to the court. Definitely he will opt to go to court. You just keep telling him that management is not allowing you do your payment & settlement.
Bonds are not accepted in court but we have to keep alive the importance of Bond. We are giving the keys of our important business to such employees hands so we have right to get the bond.
From India, Mumbai
Do not argue with such employees. Let him go to the court. Definitely he will opt to go to court. You just keep telling him that management is not allowing you do your payment & settlement.
Bonds are not accepted in court but we have to keep alive the importance of Bond. We are giving the keys of our important business to such employees hands so we have right to get the bond.
From India, Mumbai
How am I sure ?
I told you, I do lots of work on open source
I know many of the floss trainers
I know how they work and how such software companies work too
And from what you said so far, I could easily deduce what has happened too.
I don't know your background or position. I assume its hr.
You're approach is wrong. Your focus here is apparently on keeping the developers down and under control. That never works. Here your bond is illegal. Even if it was legal, it does not work. Enforcing a bond does not work. It's too expensive. The employee can't be forced to work and will simply say he. Does not have money. Plus he will accuse you of harassment at work as reason for leaving. No court will order recovery from his personal assets like house or car.
Even if you were to succeed, it would not help. It's not that employees will stay on after that. It's that no one will join. The message will spread across user group very quickly. In extreme cases the community will blacklist you and refuse any guidance. Or even fsf suddenly auditing you for misuse of GPL.
I understand your problem. Open source developers are very difficult to find. There are few courses for them. All the large companies like TCS, Wipro provide full classroom training for as long as 3 months to get people to the standards they want. In such a scenario if you think you will retain people by restraining them down, well there is no hope for it. Incidentally, the new employer may even be willing to pay for the court case :)
Do provide classroom sessions as proper training if you think it will make them better developers and more productive for your company. Don't think that you can get away with making documentation to enforcing a bond. Incidentally, the cost training would be divided into a per head cost and the figures would not help you enough. (Again, I know how your industry works)
Sorry members, I wrote a long post which may not be strictly in line with the thread and original question. I hope it helps us all to understand the scenario better
From India, Mumbai
I told you, I do lots of work on open source
I know many of the floss trainers
I know how they work and how such software companies work too
And from what you said so far, I could easily deduce what has happened too.
I don't know your background or position. I assume its hr.
You're approach is wrong. Your focus here is apparently on keeping the developers down and under control. That never works. Here your bond is illegal. Even if it was legal, it does not work. Enforcing a bond does not work. It's too expensive. The employee can't be forced to work and will simply say he. Does not have money. Plus he will accuse you of harassment at work as reason for leaving. No court will order recovery from his personal assets like house or car.
Even if you were to succeed, it would not help. It's not that employees will stay on after that. It's that no one will join. The message will spread across user group very quickly. In extreme cases the community will blacklist you and refuse any guidance. Or even fsf suddenly auditing you for misuse of GPL.
I understand your problem. Open source developers are very difficult to find. There are few courses for them. All the large companies like TCS, Wipro provide full classroom training for as long as 3 months to get people to the standards they want. In such a scenario if you think you will retain people by restraining them down, well there is no hope for it. Incidentally, the new employer may even be willing to pay for the court case :)
Do provide classroom sessions as proper training if you think it will make them better developers and more productive for your company. Don't think that you can get away with making documentation to enforcing a bond. Incidentally, the cost training would be divided into a per head cost and the figures would not help you enough. (Again, I know how your industry works)
Sorry members, I wrote a long post which may not be strictly in line with the thread and original question. I hope it helps us all to understand the scenario better
From India, Mumbai
saswata, I have an open mind and would love to find a win-win situation !
Its not just about training. Classroom training is not as important as it used to be, thanks to online broadband cloud learning model (much better and costs fraction of alternative). please suggest tips to retain talent when market improves and the competitors are making better offers. The whole staff may disappear in 15 days !! They dont want to negotiate as they are getting into bigger company with better brand image. I feel, only thing that helps retention in such times is "attachment".
I feel those who cant handover work while leaving are making unnecessary hurry and harming their present employer. There is no end to better opportunity.
From India, Kolkata
Its not just about training. Classroom training is not as important as it used to be, thanks to online broadband cloud learning model (much better and costs fraction of alternative). please suggest tips to retain talent when market improves and the competitors are making better offers. The whole staff may disappear in 15 days !! They dont want to negotiate as they are getting into bigger company with better brand image. I feel, only thing that helps retention in such times is "attachment".
I feel those who cant handover work while leaving are making unnecessary hurry and harming their present employer. There is no end to better opportunity.
From India, Kolkata
Palak,
You have hit on a complex problem that posting limitation on this site will not even allow us to do superficial justice. If we could meet, many of us would have lots to tell, I am sure.
True, entire staff can disappear in 15 days. Or they could disappear in a month after serving notice. You still won't have time to replace the team.
Retaining a software team is complex affaire, more so in open source where the supply today is a fraction of demand, with no formal training systems. If the big boys offer a good package, people will definitely leave. Even if they pay you notice salary, it does not help. You (probably) can not march their salaries. That is also the reason few companies offer open source development.
One thing that keeps open sourced guys is to have really good projects, that are intellectually simulating. You should have a few senior developers who are loyal and who can take over projects. There are also freelancers who are willing to pitch in but at a price.
The other thing you have to do is to ensure that your documentation is perfect and strictly maintained on lines of foss software. That enables a replacement who knows his stuff to take over quickly.
It is difficult to say more without knowing more about your team and projects. If you were in mumbai, I would invite you over to my office for coffee to talk more........
From India, Mumbai
You have hit on a complex problem that posting limitation on this site will not even allow us to do superficial justice. If we could meet, many of us would have lots to tell, I am sure.
True, entire staff can disappear in 15 days. Or they could disappear in a month after serving notice. You still won't have time to replace the team.
Retaining a software team is complex affaire, more so in open source where the supply today is a fraction of demand, with no formal training systems. If the big boys offer a good package, people will definitely leave. Even if they pay you notice salary, it does not help. You (probably) can not march their salaries. That is also the reason few companies offer open source development.
One thing that keeps open sourced guys is to have really good projects, that are intellectually simulating. You should have a few senior developers who are loyal and who can take over projects. There are also freelancers who are willing to pitch in but at a price.
The other thing you have to do is to ensure that your documentation is perfect and strictly maintained on lines of foss software. That enables a replacement who knows his stuff to take over quickly.
It is difficult to say more without knowing more about your team and projects. If you were in mumbai, I would invite you over to my office for coffee to talk more........
From India, Mumbai
Naresh,
You are making a statement where you say Bonds are illegal and still you need to "keep alive the Bonds" !!! Is not your advise itself unethical when you realise that it cannot be sustained in the court of law? HR's job is to ensure that we retain the people within the legal framework and also advise the management what is ethically/legally right and wrong. Imagine the damage one could do to his/her company when one says that he will resort to illegal things for retaining the employee. Bondage and slavery do not gel well in today's business environment. And if your company is a small company, the company could be swallowed by the court cases that it will be inundated with.
I believe Cite HR is a community where we must give right/legal/ethical advise and not give advise which is based on crookedness/truancy.
Hope you take this in good spirit.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
You are making a statement where you say Bonds are illegal and still you need to "keep alive the Bonds" !!! Is not your advise itself unethical when you realise that it cannot be sustained in the court of law? HR's job is to ensure that we retain the people within the legal framework and also advise the management what is ethically/legally right and wrong. Imagine the damage one could do to his/her company when one says that he will resort to illegal things for retaining the employee. Bondage and slavery do not gel well in today's business environment. And if your company is a small company, the company could be swallowed by the court cases that it will be inundated with.
I believe Cite HR is a community where we must give right/legal/ethical advise and not give advise which is based on crookedness/truancy.
Hope you take this in good spirit.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
Well, I think if you have given a signed letter mentioning that your will pay the due amount then you should pay however you can tell him that the company faced a huge loss as the project on which he was working was not completed as well as he didn't serve the notice period. However, I can say it was a mistake as you have given the signed letter better if you settle all the things earlier by telling all this when he was leaving the company.
Also, as concern as social profiles, you can;t have control over it so better if you leave it.
From India, Lucknow
Also, as concern as social profiles, you can;t have control over it so better if you leave it.
From India, Lucknow
Community Support and Knowledge-base on business, career and organisational prospects and issues - Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query, download formats and be part of a fostered community of professionals.
Employee Appraisal Form new.doc