Dear Sudhir Sir, Sorry for late reply. I shall try to adopt the PUC checkups for our employees. Dear Raghu Sir, Thank you for the links. These are good and informative AITES
From India, Nasik
From India, Nasik
We all pay lip service initially and then the whole episode is forgotten. I carry out Fire evacuation and Prevention training for the Builders i am working for across India. Every time its a task getting all the Tenant Companies to participate as they have more important issues like business meetings, tele conference or training. Its high time our Govt stepped in in cancelling all Occupancy Certificate of Buildings without Fire NOC.
Thanks Dipil for starting this thread.
From India, Bangalore
77Thanks Dipil for starting this thread.
From India, Bangalore
Dear all,
A very good discussion on this topic.
We are talking about the more compliance. Its good & needed. Additionally we need to see on one more topic that I heared, a news that the hospital staffs & doctors came running away from the hospital during the incident & they didn't even bothered about the patients.
Now why this happened??? whether the hospital staffs were trainned enough to act during emergencies & know the emergency evacuation procedure? If they had been trained properly, atleast they might have saved some lifes, which might brought a meaning.
We need to ensure proper training should be made mandatory for all, so that they can act during emergencies & save atleast some lifes.
Dear Mr. Sudhir,
I was really excited on seeing your inputs. Your compliance motivates.
I too think of the idot drivers who drive with the high beam lights in small roads too & they don't even have the common sense to use dipper. During nights, most of the 2 wheelers & cycle riders go blank because of this.
Your point gave an idea of implementing the PUC check at our site too. Let me propose the same to my management.
From India, Delhi
A very good discussion on this topic.
We are talking about the more compliance. Its good & needed. Additionally we need to see on one more topic that I heared, a news that the hospital staffs & doctors came running away from the hospital during the incident & they didn't even bothered about the patients.
Now why this happened??? whether the hospital staffs were trainned enough to act during emergencies & know the emergency evacuation procedure? If they had been trained properly, atleast they might have saved some lifes, which might brought a meaning.
We need to ensure proper training should be made mandatory for all, so that they can act during emergencies & save atleast some lifes.
Dear Mr. Sudhir,
I was really excited on seeing your inputs. Your compliance motivates.
I too think of the idot drivers who drive with the high beam lights in small roads too & they don't even have the common sense to use dipper. During nights, most of the 2 wheelers & cycle riders go blank because of this.
Your point gave an idea of implementing the PUC check at our site too. Let me propose the same to my management.
From India, Delhi
Dear All,
I have been observing the discussion from the begining. Really very sad.... incidence.
as per data available yet, The suspected rootcause of this incident is "Flammable material stored in the basement of building" and the reason for death is "The poisonous smoke was sucked by air conditioning ducts, spread in to all room and further the oxygen deficiancy".
Let us continue this discussion to know the exact root cause which will help to suggest the appropriate preventive measures.
Hence I request all members to come forward with the details whenever available to them.
From India, Hyderabad
I have been observing the discussion from the begining. Really very sad.... incidence.
as per data available yet, The suspected rootcause of this incident is "Flammable material stored in the basement of building" and the reason for death is "The poisonous smoke was sucked by air conditioning ducts, spread in to all room and further the oxygen deficiancy".
Let us continue this discussion to know the exact root cause which will help to suggest the appropriate preventive measures.
Hence I request all members to come forward with the details whenever available to them.
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Dipil,
As you raised a good question I have bit experience in HVAC because one of my close friend has working as a HVAC Engg I was learned something while we was in iraq.
They mentioned in Presentation its wrong it’s not a damper its ‘’FIRE DAMPER’’. . .
See the below definition which I got from web hope it will solve your query.
DAMPER:
A damper is a valve or plate that stops or regulates the flow of air inside a duct, chimney, VAV box, air handler, or other air handling equipment. A damper may be used to cut off central air conditioning (heating or cooling) to an unused room, or to regulate it for room-by-room temperature and climate control.
FIRE DAMPER:
Fire dampers are passive fire protection products used in heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) ducts to prevent the spread of fire inside the ductwork through fire-resistance rated walls and floors. Fire/Smoke dampers Are similar to Fire Dampers in fire resistance rating, and also prevent the spread of smoke inside the ducts. When a rise in temperature occurs, the fire damper closes, usually activated by a thermal element which melts at temperatures higher than ambient but low enough to indicate the presence of a fire, allowing springs to close the damper blades. Fire dampers can also close following receipt of an electrical signal from a fire alarm system utilizing detectors remote from the damper, indicating the sensing of heat or smoke in the building occupied spaces or in the HVAC duct system.
Note: Do you remember Mr.Nadhan https://www.citehr.com/339848-car-c-...must-read.html. He is a HVAC Engg was participate on our most of threads specially HVAC related issues just now I wrote a mail to him regarding this hopefully he will add his inputs soon.
Keep on sharing. . .
From United States, Fpo
As you raised a good question I have bit experience in HVAC because one of my close friend has working as a HVAC Engg I was learned something while we was in iraq.
They mentioned in Presentation its wrong it’s not a damper its ‘’FIRE DAMPER’’. . .
See the below definition which I got from web hope it will solve your query.
DAMPER:
A damper is a valve or plate that stops or regulates the flow of air inside a duct, chimney, VAV box, air handler, or other air handling equipment. A damper may be used to cut off central air conditioning (heating or cooling) to an unused room, or to regulate it for room-by-room temperature and climate control.
FIRE DAMPER:
Fire dampers are passive fire protection products used in heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) ducts to prevent the spread of fire inside the ductwork through fire-resistance rated walls and floors. Fire/Smoke dampers Are similar to Fire Dampers in fire resistance rating, and also prevent the spread of smoke inside the ducts. When a rise in temperature occurs, the fire damper closes, usually activated by a thermal element which melts at temperatures higher than ambient but low enough to indicate the presence of a fire, allowing springs to close the damper blades. Fire dampers can also close following receipt of an electrical signal from a fire alarm system utilizing detectors remote from the damper, indicating the sensing of heat or smoke in the building occupied spaces or in the HVAC duct system.
Note: Do you remember Mr.Nadhan https://www.citehr.com/339848-car-c-...must-read.html. He is a HVAC Engg was participate on our most of threads specially HVAC related issues just now I wrote a mail to him regarding this hopefully he will add his inputs soon.
Keep on sharing. . .
From United States, Fpo
Dear dipil, Forget to say thanks for your presentation. Dear KVS, Srinivasa Rao, Jude mayne, Thanks for your inputs on this thread. Keep on shring. . .
From United States, Fpo
From United States, Fpo
First we have to understand that HVAC system is combined of electrical, mechanical and instrumentation, in this any one of them is failed it will not workout.
Fire / smoke dampers is a electromechanical system that prevents fire spreading inside the ducts, there are some safety sensors in the fire damper systems like temperature sensor, smoke detector, if the air temperature raises to some extended temperature it will close thro temperature sensor, if there is a smoke in the ducting system, the damper will be closed thro smoke detector, even there is a false alarm from fire safety systems the dampers will be closed.
Fire rated sealants and cements will be used for construction of the fire dampers to prevent fire around the dampers.
There are possibilities for struck of dampers due to lack of preventive maintenance.
It is clear that Fire / smoke dampers help us to stop spreading of fire / smoke thro AC ducting system and the HVAC system should be designed like in case of fire emergency the supply air from AHU's should be stopped and there should be continuous running of exhaust system at full rpm, this is to remove the smoke inside the buildings and the exhaust system should be energized from emergency power sources, If it was designed like this there is less changes of spreading fire / smoke thro AC ducting system.
As of the PPT it was mentioned that fire safety system is inactive, may be the smoke / fire dampers haven't work due to this, may be there is a lack of maintenance practices.
And it is true that fire / smoke dampers have been worked and closed, there is less chances for death rate affected thru suffocation.
From China, Shanghai
Fire / smoke dampers is a electromechanical system that prevents fire spreading inside the ducts, there are some safety sensors in the fire damper systems like temperature sensor, smoke detector, if the air temperature raises to some extended temperature it will close thro temperature sensor, if there is a smoke in the ducting system, the damper will be closed thro smoke detector, even there is a false alarm from fire safety systems the dampers will be closed.
Fire rated sealants and cements will be used for construction of the fire dampers to prevent fire around the dampers.
There are possibilities for struck of dampers due to lack of preventive maintenance.
It is clear that Fire / smoke dampers help us to stop spreading of fire / smoke thro AC ducting system and the HVAC system should be designed like in case of fire emergency the supply air from AHU's should be stopped and there should be continuous running of exhaust system at full rpm, this is to remove the smoke inside the buildings and the exhaust system should be energized from emergency power sources, If it was designed like this there is less changes of spreading fire / smoke thro AC ducting system.
As of the PPT it was mentioned that fire safety system is inactive, may be the smoke / fire dampers haven't work due to this, may be there is a lack of maintenance practices.
And it is true that fire / smoke dampers have been worked and closed, there is less chances for death rate affected thru suffocation.
From China, Shanghai
Dear Kanathan
First of all let me welcome you in the EHS Forum.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, which will teach our members about the importance of maintenance of Fire Protection Equipments at all times. As per your view, if the temperature or smoke sensor was functioning properly, then the casualties might have been restricted or even avoided.
Keep on participating and share your feedback, ideas, comments in all the safety concerned threads.
From India, Kumbakonam
First of all let me welcome you in the EHS Forum.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, which will teach our members about the importance of maintenance of Fire Protection Equipments at all times. As per your view, if the temperature or smoke sensor was functioning properly, then the casualties might have been restricted or even avoided.
Keep on participating and share your feedback, ideas, comments in all the safety concerned threads.
From India, Kumbakonam
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