I am not so sure that "............action shall definitely be taken by the top management against the manager...". I beg to differ. Normally, if it is a matter between non-managerial staff and a manager, then the top management seldom takes any punitive action against the manager, even if he is at fault. At most, they shall ask him (that too verbally) not to do this again! However, if by any chance the unit head has some grudge against this manager, then he/she shall use this opportunity to settle scores with him.
From India, New Delhi
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106From India, New Delhi
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Dear Sandeep,
Shri Raj Kumar Hansdah has very aptly advised you. By the way, do you not feel that you have become overly sentimental and emotional in this case? Also, it may not be with any wrong intention on your part, but don't you feel that you have skipped one step for the purpose of close coordination within the organization by ignoring the instructions of some superior, when you say, "I got a call from my account manager to discuss it. Then, I received an email from the cluster head to travel as he is the one who has discussed with my manager. I took his email as approval and traveled." Just think, did that email state anywhere that there was no need for you to meet the account manager?
The "testing competency" might have contacted the Account Manager at your request to get in touch with him, but the responsibility to ensure proper invoicing and accounting rests with the accounts department. The Accounts Manager would have been interested only in avoiding any communication gap in a triangle of the 'accounts manager,' 'competency,' and you, as you were supposed to visit on site for the purpose of testing/delivery in SAP competency, whatever it may be.
Since you also hold the status of a manager, just think, for the purpose of proper coordination, as part of your responsibility, if you had asked someone to meet you for discussion before proceeding on-site to ensure proper testing and his superior directed him to proceed, would you not feel ignored by the said person?
If the competency approved your tour/travel, that did not mean the element of coordination between the other concerned departments was dispensed with unless formally desired.
In any organization, close coordination between the concerned departments is a must. Though the competency has done its duty by approving your travel, it would not have restrained you or disapproved your meeting with the Account Manager.
Therefore, in case you wish to proceed against your company's Account Manager or even the company for your satisfaction, even if the incident hurt your ego, I anticipate that you would only be jeopardizing your career and be a loser at the organizational level as well as potentially in court on one or both of the following counts:
1) Insubordination on your part, having ignored the instructions of the concerned superior authority; and/or
2) Not discharging your responsibility with due diligence and in keeping pace with the requirements of some other related department.
Sometimes compromises with one's position become imperative. So, my elderly advice is to make sure not to take any step that may jeopardize your own position and reputation. Better weigh the pros and cons of your idea properly before you decide to proceed further. Sometimes bitterness in relations between one and the other party may prove quite harmful to the interests of each one in the future due to the development of revengeful attitudes. No one can anticipate when one would need the help of an adversary in some difficult time.
From India, Delhi
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Shri Raj Kumar Hansdah has very aptly advised you. By the way, do you not feel that you have become overly sentimental and emotional in this case? Also, it may not be with any wrong intention on your part, but don't you feel that you have skipped one step for the purpose of close coordination within the organization by ignoring the instructions of some superior, when you say, "I got a call from my account manager to discuss it. Then, I received an email from the cluster head to travel as he is the one who has discussed with my manager. I took his email as approval and traveled." Just think, did that email state anywhere that there was no need for you to meet the account manager?
The "testing competency" might have contacted the Account Manager at your request to get in touch with him, but the responsibility to ensure proper invoicing and accounting rests with the accounts department. The Accounts Manager would have been interested only in avoiding any communication gap in a triangle of the 'accounts manager,' 'competency,' and you, as you were supposed to visit on site for the purpose of testing/delivery in SAP competency, whatever it may be.
Since you also hold the status of a manager, just think, for the purpose of proper coordination, as part of your responsibility, if you had asked someone to meet you for discussion before proceeding on-site to ensure proper testing and his superior directed him to proceed, would you not feel ignored by the said person?
If the competency approved your tour/travel, that did not mean the element of coordination between the other concerned departments was dispensed with unless formally desired.
In any organization, close coordination between the concerned departments is a must. Though the competency has done its duty by approving your travel, it would not have restrained you or disapproved your meeting with the Account Manager.
Therefore, in case you wish to proceed against your company's Account Manager or even the company for your satisfaction, even if the incident hurt your ego, I anticipate that you would only be jeopardizing your career and be a loser at the organizational level as well as potentially in court on one or both of the following counts:
1) Insubordination on your part, having ignored the instructions of the concerned superior authority; and/or
2) Not discharging your responsibility with due diligence and in keeping pace with the requirements of some other related department.
Sometimes compromises with one's position become imperative. So, my elderly advice is to make sure not to take any step that may jeopardize your own position and reputation. Better weigh the pros and cons of your idea properly before you decide to proceed further. Sometimes bitterness in relations between one and the other party may prove quite harmful to the interests of each one in the future due to the development of revengeful attitudes. No one can anticipate when one would need the help of an adversary in some difficult time.
From India, Delhi
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From your post, I understand that you are not based in India, but are based in the UK. Humiliating a subordinate or harassing may be something which may be acceptable in India, but it is not so in developed countries. You are protected by workplace mental and harassment guidelines and statutes. You may go ahead and file a written complaint with the authorities. The legal process in the UK is swift and fair. Please take all the evidence and meet up with a good lawyer. You are also entitled to fair compensation for the humiliation you have gone through, and this could amount to at least a couple of million pounds. I have had to handle such a case in my UK office, and both the concerned employee and the superior who harassed him were incidentally Indians. The concerned employee was awarded a compensation of GBP 2.5 million. Besides, he was declared a protected employee and was not allowed to be terminated. So please go ahead and contact a lawyer who handles workplace issues.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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From United+States, San+Francisco
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Respected Members,
The anonymity of the author of the latest advice indicates as if the author of this advice is not sure whether his advice is correct or not. Moreover, it reveals as if he has no sufficient courage and confidence to render advice to the querist with his real identity! Anyway, it is up to the querist if he prefers to adhere to the advice of some anonymous person.
From India, Delhi
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The anonymity of the author of the latest advice indicates as if the author of this advice is not sure whether his advice is correct or not. Moreover, it reveals as if he has no sufficient courage and confidence to render advice to the querist with his real identity! Anyway, it is up to the querist if he prefers to adhere to the advice of some anonymous person.
From India, Delhi
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I am really sorry to see so many responses asking to let it go. I am sure you all are senior enough to understand the self-respect, and anyone trying to hurt that will definitely not be taken lightly. I believe that because most of the guys prefer to keep mum in such incidents, we have so many such incidents, and we Indians with a 'chalta hai' attitude started taking it for granted. I am sorry to most of you who tried preaching me the same attitude. Sorry again to see the response and thought about what you are teaching to your kids. I am in the UK, and in the Western world, self-respect is beyond everything.
I read a response where someone said you are not a woman to feel harassed. Sir, self-respect comes irrespective of your self, and I'd request everyone to understand that I'll not allow anyone to walk past me just because he is my account manager and up in hierarchy.
Please don't waste your time in responding to me to tolerate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I guarantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests to me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my solution.
Sorry if I hurt anyone with my response, but for me, it's much more acceptable to fight and get a result than sit and evaluate today and think tomorrow 'ki kas I could have done it.' I believe in my ability and I command the dignity of labor.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
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I read a response where someone said you are not a woman to feel harassed. Sir, self-respect comes irrespective of your self, and I'd request everyone to understand that I'll not allow anyone to walk past me just because he is my account manager and up in hierarchy.
Please don't waste your time in responding to me to tolerate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I guarantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests to me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my solution.
Sorry if I hurt anyone with my response, but for me, it's much more acceptable to fight and get a result than sit and evaluate today and think tomorrow 'ki kas I could have done it.' I believe in my ability and I command the dignity of labor.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
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Dear Sandeep,
Although it is a sheer waste of my time, as against your advice to members, but still I prefer to waste time to give my observation on your latest post.
Very wise decision, if you have decided to quit and search your own solution by using your own wisdom. Of course, you can understand your own position well, rather than any one else can, being not in direct touch with you. Nobody can or will compel you to adhere to the advice or suggestion of any one of the members of this forum. Nobody would even ask you to guarante whether you will be responsible for the results or not even as against your resolve, as any one of us has no right to ask you on that aspect. BUT, I must point out to you that your latest post speaks about your frustration and confusion, as revealed from your statement: Rather, you have given vent to your perplexion more from the following contradictory statement, which states as:
"Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
As of contrdiction, on one hand you have desired the members to tell you the process, but on the other hand you have stated, "I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
Question arises, when you have advised the members of CiteHR, not to waste their time, as you intend not to adhere to any advice, how you expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process to deal with your problem legally? Moreover, when you are talking about the self respect with specific reference to the UK & western world as compared to your condemned Indian, "CHALTA HAI ATTITUDE," how you can expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process based on chalta hai attitude? Still further, when you are in UK, the laws of UK only can be invoked, while the Indians with the so called "chalta hai attitude" can be expected to suggest you only the Indian process with reference to the Indian laws that may not be valid in UK..
So, any advice from Indian members may not suit you the "chalta hai" attitudinal process. So, it will be better for you to consult some local UK lawyer and file a case in the court of law by using your own wisdom.
BUT DON'T FORGET, the Indian members of this forum have not charged you any fee, nor asked you to pay any, nor have been benefitted in any way in advising you voluntarily, nor any of your proposed action against the manager or your company is expected to adversely affect them in any way, if you consider them to have given you advice with their chalta hai attitude.
OF COURSE, I can advise you with reference to British Laws also, but keeping in view of your future career I did not prefer to do so. But, had you preferred to consult me in person, I would have charged my consultation fee of not less than GBP £ 200 for my advice and that too without any responsibility how that would affect you.
MIND IT, voluntary advice is always sincere and can be benficial. Your lawyer can advice you only how to proceed legally, but won't tell you the pros & cons of that process, whether that benfits you or adversely affect your future career.
Any way, you are the master of yourself, by using your own wisdon. take your own decision how to proceed administratively or legally with the help of some UK based lawyer.
Best of luck !!!!!
From India, Delhi
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Although it is a sheer waste of my time, as against your advice to members, but still I prefer to waste time to give my observation on your latest post.
Very wise decision, if you have decided to quit and search your own solution by using your own wisdom. Of course, you can understand your own position well, rather than any one else can, being not in direct touch with you. Nobody can or will compel you to adhere to the advice or suggestion of any one of the members of this forum. Nobody would even ask you to guarante whether you will be responsible for the results or not even as against your resolve, as any one of us has no right to ask you on that aspect. BUT, I must point out to you that your latest post speaks about your frustration and confusion, as revealed from your statement: Rather, you have given vent to your perplexion more from the following contradictory statement, which states as:
"Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
As of contrdiction, on one hand you have desired the members to tell you the process, but on the other hand you have stated, "I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
Question arises, when you have advised the members of CiteHR, not to waste their time, as you intend not to adhere to any advice, how you expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process to deal with your problem legally? Moreover, when you are talking about the self respect with specific reference to the UK & western world as compared to your condemned Indian, "CHALTA HAI ATTITUDE," how you can expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process based on chalta hai attitude? Still further, when you are in UK, the laws of UK only can be invoked, while the Indians with the so called "chalta hai attitude" can be expected to suggest you only the Indian process with reference to the Indian laws that may not be valid in UK..
So, any advice from Indian members may not suit you the "chalta hai" attitudinal process. So, it will be better for you to consult some local UK lawyer and file a case in the court of law by using your own wisdom.
BUT DON'T FORGET, the Indian members of this forum have not charged you any fee, nor asked you to pay any, nor have been benefitted in any way in advising you voluntarily, nor any of your proposed action against the manager or your company is expected to adversely affect them in any way, if you consider them to have given you advice with their chalta hai attitude.
OF COURSE, I can advise you with reference to British Laws also, but keeping in view of your future career I did not prefer to do so. But, had you preferred to consult me in person, I would have charged my consultation fee of not less than GBP £ 200 for my advice and that too without any responsibility how that would affect you.
MIND IT, voluntary advice is always sincere and can be benficial. Your lawyer can advice you only how to proceed legally, but won't tell you the pros & cons of that process, whether that benfits you or adversely affect your future career.
Any way, you are the master of yourself, by using your own wisdon. take your own decision how to proceed administratively or legally with the help of some UK based lawyer.
Best of luck !!!!!
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mr. Dhingra,
Your email regarding being anonymous and its reflection on one's confidence and courage is uncalled for. This site provides an option to remain anonymous, and every person has the choice to do so. We are not here to seek publicity or consulting assignments by sharing our contact details; we are here to add value, not promote our business. I have received unwanted emails from consultants when I have not remained anonymous. As a CHRO of an MNC, the last thing we want is to be inundated with unsolicited messages from consultants. I hope my response to your intimidation/provocation will put this matter to rest. In the past, other consultants have also tried to provoke anonymous contributors to disclose their identity. What matters is whether the posted content adds value; the identity of the poster is irrelevant.
Thank you.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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Your email regarding being anonymous and its reflection on one's confidence and courage is uncalled for. This site provides an option to remain anonymous, and every person has the choice to do so. We are not here to seek publicity or consulting assignments by sharing our contact details; we are here to add value, not promote our business. I have received unwanted emails from consultants when I have not remained anonymous. As a CHRO of an MNC, the last thing we want is to be inundated with unsolicited messages from consultants. I hope my response to your intimidation/provocation will put this matter to rest. In the past, other consultants have also tried to provoke anonymous contributors to disclose their identity. What matters is whether the posted content adds value; the identity of the poster is irrelevant.
Thank you.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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Dear Mr. Anonymous,
Asking for advice while remaining anonymous is understood, but not giving advice by hiding your identity. That, as per my belief, indicates only a lack of courage and confidence. Anyway, that may be your belief or choice to remain anonymous! If that is your choice, you cannot also deprive others of having the choice to make observations on anonymous advice in the open to all forum.
From India, Delhi
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Asking for advice while remaining anonymous is understood, but not giving advice by hiding your identity. That, as per my belief, indicates only a lack of courage and confidence. Anyway, that may be your belief or choice to remain anonymous! If that is your choice, you cannot also deprive others of having the choice to make observations on anonymous advice in the open to all forum.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mr. Dhingra,
Thank you for offering me the discounted consultation fees for consulting, but trust me, seeing your free advice, you will be the last person for me to come to. Not to offend you or others like you, but I feel that you are dragging the matter in an unwanted direction. For me, my respect is above everything else, and it is hurt by this incident. I will not force you to put yourself in my place, but I just request that our thoughts are not matching, and I can't take your suggestions positively as they are making zero impact on me. So please feel free not to advise me any further. I have received a few responses here without resorting to personal attacks on personality and without any prejudice, which I will follow.
Thanks for your time anyhow, and I must confess your sense of humor is really nice, and I liked it.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
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Thank you for offering me the discounted consultation fees for consulting, but trust me, seeing your free advice, you will be the last person for me to come to. Not to offend you or others like you, but I feel that you are dragging the matter in an unwanted direction. For me, my respect is above everything else, and it is hurt by this incident. I will not force you to put yourself in my place, but I just request that our thoughts are not matching, and I can't take your suggestions positively as they are making zero impact on me. So please feel free not to advise me any further. I have received a few responses here without resorting to personal attacks on personality and without any prejudice, which I will follow.
Thanks for your time anyhow, and I must confess your sense of humor is really nice, and I liked it.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
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Dear Mr. Dhingra,
This site has given a choice to remain anonymous, and that is one of the prime reasons for senior professionals to be part of the site. If this choice was not given, we would not be members here.
If I were a consultant and seeking to take advantage of the new wave social networking platform to market myself, I would surely post my details. However, I am not a consultant, and I don't want to be hounded by consultants.
If you still do not understand my response, then God bless.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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This site has given a choice to remain anonymous, and that is one of the prime reasons for senior professionals to be part of the site. If this choice was not given, we would not be members here.
If I were a consultant and seeking to take advantage of the new wave social networking platform to market myself, I would surely post my details. However, I am not a consultant, and I don't want to be hounded by consultants.
If you still do not understand my response, then God bless.
From United+States, San+Francisco
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