Dear Kumar :
I agree with you, Asra and others wherein you have voiced that Accounts personnel bossing over HR personnel.
If you will critically analyse, there have been and still are lot of companies, organisation where a separate HR cell is not existing but the HR activities are taken care of by accounts personnel. As rightly pointed out byyou, there could be DGM - Comml & Admin, or Mgr - Accts & Admin which will include HR functions too. But you wd not find a HR Manager taking care of accounting functions as well.
This fact could be due to the reason that non-HR and non-Personnel dept employees can do some thing with the HR functions - though not in a professional way but can manager - jobs like issuing of apptmt letters, attendance and salary administration and preparation of salary sheets etc etc. Even with existance of HR dept, I know organisations, where the ESI, PF, P Tax etc payments are the responsibility of the accounts and finanace dept.
To top it all, the accounts and finance will send xerox copies of the proof of payment of these statutory obligations to the HR dept for their info and records and retain the originals with them.
Well, at the time of the statutory inspections, I have also experienced the ordeal we have to undergo to get the original proof of payments/challans etc from accounts to be produced to the Inspecting authorities.
The above being the case, have you come across any organisation/companies where there are no accounts personnel ? Can HR dept take care of the accounting procedures ? Even in unorganised institutions we will find an Accountant who takes care of the accounting fuctions of the org. Can HR or any body else than accounts take care of this function.
The above concept has certainly taken a beating and is changing. Many org have realised the importance of HR professionals in their org - to fix the employees salaries appropriately, awarding rational increments etc etc with utmost care given to retaining of employees.
HR professionals have been and are being recognised for their part in the Org. The status of accounts personnel ill-treating HR personnel will have to and will change.
As we are supposed to be - have patience which will bear the desired result. Patience pays.
Regards. All the best and good luck.
:: Dhinakaran
From India, Hyderabad
4I agree with you, Asra and others wherein you have voiced that Accounts personnel bossing over HR personnel.
If you will critically analyse, there have been and still are lot of companies, organisation where a separate HR cell is not existing but the HR activities are taken care of by accounts personnel. As rightly pointed out byyou, there could be DGM - Comml & Admin, or Mgr - Accts & Admin which will include HR functions too. But you wd not find a HR Manager taking care of accounting functions as well.
This fact could be due to the reason that non-HR and non-Personnel dept employees can do some thing with the HR functions - though not in a professional way but can manager - jobs like issuing of apptmt letters, attendance and salary administration and preparation of salary sheets etc etc. Even with existance of HR dept, I know organisations, where the ESI, PF, P Tax etc payments are the responsibility of the accounts and finanace dept.
To top it all, the accounts and finance will send xerox copies of the proof of payment of these statutory obligations to the HR dept for their info and records and retain the originals with them.
Well, at the time of the statutory inspections, I have also experienced the ordeal we have to undergo to get the original proof of payments/challans etc from accounts to be produced to the Inspecting authorities.
The above being the case, have you come across any organisation/companies where there are no accounts personnel ? Can HR dept take care of the accounting procedures ? Even in unorganised institutions we will find an Accountant who takes care of the accounting fuctions of the org. Can HR or any body else than accounts take care of this function.
The above concept has certainly taken a beating and is changing. Many org have realised the importance of HR professionals in their org - to fix the employees salaries appropriately, awarding rational increments etc etc with utmost care given to retaining of employees.
HR professionals have been and are being recognised for their part in the Org. The status of accounts personnel ill-treating HR personnel will have to and will change.
As we are supposed to be - have patience which will bear the desired result. Patience pays.
Regards. All the best and good luck.
:: Dhinakaran
From India, Hyderabad
In any orginasations the conception of dominating word is very harm full.
Every department hve thier own role to perform and give results towards the orginasations goal.
So , would request to concentrate to the HR funcution and result oriented job , instead of calculte who is dominating each other.
Clear indentification of role and responsibility should be the key , over lapping of the function and responsibility will create such situation.
If any orginasation want HR departement , they should have a clear policy, expectation and result oriented target in terms of qaulity and qauntity.
Where the same missing , lack of professoinal working , such think can happen as described you.
From India, Delhi
Every department hve thier own role to perform and give results towards the orginasations goal.
So , would request to concentrate to the HR funcution and result oriented job , instead of calculte who is dominating each other.
Clear indentification of role and responsibility should be the key , over lapping of the function and responsibility will create such situation.
If any orginasation want HR departement , they should have a clear policy, expectation and result oriented target in terms of qaulity and qauntity.
Where the same missing , lack of professoinal working , such think can happen as described you.
From India, Delhi
Dear friends,
Thanks for the wonderful topic and the opinions shared by fellow professionals .
Yes, in small organizations Accounts & Finance can handle routine HR activities which are refrerred to as Transactional HR. Please note there are certain core activities which very few accounts people would be be keen to handle. just to state a couple
1) IR issues, negotiations, wage settlements , disciplinary proceedings.
2) identification of training needs, Design and delivery of training programs etc.
The present trend is towards strategic HR, wherein HR plays the role of a strategic partner.
People's function has evolved into sub specializations and performance measurement has become common. It 's no longer a lay mans domain.
Hence, play your role to it's fullest. Other functions will cease to thread into your area.
GS
From India
Thanks for the wonderful topic and the opinions shared by fellow professionals .
Yes, in small organizations Accounts & Finance can handle routine HR activities which are refrerred to as Transactional HR. Please note there are certain core activities which very few accounts people would be be keen to handle. just to state a couple
1) IR issues, negotiations, wage settlements , disciplinary proceedings.
2) identification of training needs, Design and delivery of training programs etc.
The present trend is towards strategic HR, wherein HR plays the role of a strategic partner.
People's function has evolved into sub specializations and performance measurement has become common. It 's no longer a lay mans domain.
Hence, play your role to it's fullest. Other functions will cease to thread into your area.
GS
From India
Hi,
In my opinion this relation is mutual, it is not only Accounts dept. goes crazy on HR some times HR dept. goes crazy on Accounts especially whenever any problem or delay occurs and both the departments are jointly responsible for the same, both pass the buck on each other.
Regards,
Jyoti
From India, Mumbai
In my opinion this relation is mutual, it is not only Accounts dept. goes crazy on HR some times HR dept. goes crazy on Accounts especially whenever any problem or delay occurs and both the departments are jointly responsible for the same, both pass the buck on each other.
Regards,
Jyoti
From India, Mumbai
Dear PBS,
You have raised quite an interesting hot isue, What I believe its purely fault at our end.....i mean we the HR professionals.
We mostly dont take care of the numbers/figures portion of our job...i have tested this most of dont know good about the following:
- Payroll ratio
- selection ratio
- retention ration
- calculation for wrong hiring
and any other financial/business ratio.
The finance guy mostly take advanatge by playing just figures...as the owners and directors like this thing......according to my observation most of the finace guys just maintin their jobs with number gimics......
I hope most of the partcipants will agree with me.
Regards.
Yousuf
From Pakistan, Lahore
You have raised quite an interesting hot isue, What I believe its purely fault at our end.....i mean we the HR professionals.
We mostly dont take care of the numbers/figures portion of our job...i have tested this most of dont know good about the following:
- Payroll ratio
- selection ratio
- retention ration
- calculation for wrong hiring
and any other financial/business ratio.
The finance guy mostly take advanatge by playing just figures...as the owners and directors like this thing......according to my observation most of the finace guys just maintin their jobs with number gimics......
I hope most of the partcipants will agree with me.
Regards.
Yousuf
From Pakistan, Lahore
HARMONY is key to differences. Both wants to do their job but all roles overlap and hence the confusion. Having tea or lunch with each other regularly would solve the issues.
From India
From India
Dear Mr Kishore :
Your suggestions to have a cup of tea is fine.
But pls do not mistake - the problem between HR and accounts exist only in official matters.
Off the offical matters almost all the departmental employees in an Organisation are pally pally with each other and do not or rather should not mix up with official matters.
Rgds
:: Dhinakaran
From India, Hyderabad
Your suggestions to have a cup of tea is fine.
But pls do not mistake - the problem between HR and accounts exist only in official matters.
Off the offical matters almost all the departmental employees in an Organisation are pally pally with each other and do not or rather should not mix up with official matters.
Rgds
:: Dhinakaran
From India, Hyderabad
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