Hi Thesysthink
I second you on that, most of us face this and I most of us would like to have their share of free time for his family / other work, including me.
But I know of quite a number of people who work extended hours [though not required by company] just because they are more interested in it than doing some other work... So again it is subjective.
All I wanted to point is that it is subjective and the weightages method gives us an appropriate tool to get an answer...
From India, Ahmadabad
35I second you on that, most of us face this and I most of us would like to have their share of free time for his family / other work, including me.
But I know of quite a number of people who work extended hours [though not required by company] just because they are more interested in it than doing some other work... So again it is subjective.
All I wanted to point is that it is subjective and the weightages method gives us an appropriate tool to get an answer...
From India, Ahmadabad
:D Dear Ajmal,
Sorry I just skipped that .. Yes, I think we should have some weightages or at least a scientific methodology to do a valid cost-benefit analysis ...
That was just sharing my experience. I was talking about the injustice that I dislike the most in organization. Have you ever heard HR working on Information Systems ? :( (In addition to core responsibilities) :D
However .. In my opinion things should not be taken for granted. If somebody is working beyond scheduled hours, its does not always mean the employee is exploitable .. :D
Am I emotional ? Please pardon me for that .. :D
But I would like to add, not all companies do that. Ethics is still left.
Dear Vishal, thanks for your encouragements.
Regards,
Thesysthink
From India, Pune
Sorry I just skipped that .. Yes, I think we should have some weightages or at least a scientific methodology to do a valid cost-benefit analysis ...
That was just sharing my experience. I was talking about the injustice that I dislike the most in organization. Have you ever heard HR working on Information Systems ? :( (In addition to core responsibilities) :D
However .. In my opinion things should not be taken for granted. If somebody is working beyond scheduled hours, its does not always mean the employee is exploitable .. :D
Am I emotional ? Please pardon me for that .. :D
But I would like to add, not all companies do that. Ethics is still left.
Dear Vishal, thanks for your encouragements.
Regards,
Thesysthink
From India, Pune
I agree with all of you. Indian Employees are exploited by Indian companies. They are also exploited by the foreign customers of the Indian companies.
This however is a gross generalisation. Let me focus on the IT industry.
People from Indian software companies working in banks in UK as consultants work saturday and sundays.
They work overnight on night shift, they work long hours at times.
the money is made by the company where as the consultants salary is the same and lower than what a britisher would get in UK. They are not eligible for over time. netither do they get the extra component for working at night. Indian software ompanies to appease their paymasters do not even get timesheets signed on the extra work done for the customer.
If more than 50 years back India was ruled by the British, many Indian IT companies are ruled by the western world.
In India - where are the champions for Work Life Balance. I rememebr working 16 hours a day without any one asking me to and at times people asking me too without extra pay. We also spoil the system as individuals. We do not stick to principles. If we do it en masses then the culture will be forced to change.
I would thus not blame the employers in india 100% but definitely 75%
Where are the champions for work life balance and fair wages in india today.
From India, Bangalore
This however is a gross generalisation. Let me focus on the IT industry.
People from Indian software companies working in banks in UK as consultants work saturday and sundays.
They work overnight on night shift, they work long hours at times.
the money is made by the company where as the consultants salary is the same and lower than what a britisher would get in UK. They are not eligible for over time. netither do they get the extra component for working at night. Indian software ompanies to appease their paymasters do not even get timesheets signed on the extra work done for the customer.
If more than 50 years back India was ruled by the British, many Indian IT companies are ruled by the western world.
In India - where are the champions for Work Life Balance. I rememebr working 16 hours a day without any one asking me to and at times people asking me too without extra pay. We also spoil the system as individuals. We do not stick to principles. If we do it en masses then the culture will be forced to change.
I would thus not blame the employers in india 100% but definitely 75%
Where are the champions for work life balance and fair wages in india today.
From India, Bangalore
:D Dear HRManager ..
You are Right .. I am really new in the domain of HR and started getting bitter Experiences .. I worked with a Consultany where I got the position of Practice Lead (a fancy decorable name) .. We were opening a new SBU for which I had to do the vendor Management, Installation of Servers (because my boss thought I could do it, and I did it) .. and one day it was beyond my limit to take it because I spent 28 hours in Office .. the First question my boss asked after arriving it - Oh! It's good, but when are you coming back ..
I am sure all companies are not just like that .. however I am trying my best to enter into Business Analytics or Research, leaving HR .. and this will be my protest to the exploitation .. I know this is probably not the correct way, but a person must survive to excel ..
In certain cases, (Especially in some HR Consultancies) .. there is 100% exploitation ..
And this is just my perception .. Organizations just cannot exploit a person because he (or she) had the courage to be honest .. in my company I now know about a salary difference of 1.5 times .. when compared to a person working in same capacity (my capacity), lesser qualification and equal in productivity ..
This is, ofcourse, story at the bottom level ..
But yes, this is life .. :D
Regards,
Thesysthink
From India, Pune
You are Right .. I am really new in the domain of HR and started getting bitter Experiences .. I worked with a Consultany where I got the position of Practice Lead (a fancy decorable name) .. We were opening a new SBU for which I had to do the vendor Management, Installation of Servers (because my boss thought I could do it, and I did it) .. and one day it was beyond my limit to take it because I spent 28 hours in Office .. the First question my boss asked after arriving it - Oh! It's good, but when are you coming back ..
I am sure all companies are not just like that .. however I am trying my best to enter into Business Analytics or Research, leaving HR .. and this will be my protest to the exploitation .. I know this is probably not the correct way, but a person must survive to excel ..
In certain cases, (Especially in some HR Consultancies) .. there is 100% exploitation ..
And this is just my perception .. Organizations just cannot exploit a person because he (or she) had the courage to be honest .. in my company I now know about a salary difference of 1.5 times .. when compared to a person working in same capacity (my capacity), lesser qualification and equal in productivity ..
This is, ofcourse, story at the bottom level ..
But yes, this is life .. :D
Regards,
Thesysthink
From India, Pune
I have been closely following the entire discussion and still believe that
It is a subjective matter. Though most of you have said, that we are being exploited. The word exploited itself is debatable.
Think about it this way. I case you have started your own company, how many hours are you going to put into it initially to make it a success. Most of us will not count the hours at that time..
Like Mr. Thesysthink said "In certain cases, (Especially in some HR Consultancies) .. there is 100% exploitation .."
I have worked with such organization for quite some time and I believe that even I was not given sufficient leaves, worked more than 12 hours [almost daily] and was not paid at par with other industries... But I knew one thing, the business depended on me to a large extent and if I would not give my time, the company will not grow at the targeted rate. The simple logic states that if the company is not going to grow, how can you expect the benefits the bigger companies give from a smaller company, which generally runs on much limited resources.
Here again, exploitation [if you call it so] is in smaller companies. You generally don't see that in bigger and well established organizations and this is a global phenomenon. You simply cannot pinpoint Indian companies on this issue.
From India, Ahmadabad
It is a subjective matter. Though most of you have said, that we are being exploited. The word exploited itself is debatable.
Think about it this way. I case you have started your own company, how many hours are you going to put into it initially to make it a success. Most of us will not count the hours at that time..
Like Mr. Thesysthink said "In certain cases, (Especially in some HR Consultancies) .. there is 100% exploitation .."
I have worked with such organization for quite some time and I believe that even I was not given sufficient leaves, worked more than 12 hours [almost daily] and was not paid at par with other industries... But I knew one thing, the business depended on me to a large extent and if I would not give my time, the company will not grow at the targeted rate. The simple logic states that if the company is not going to grow, how can you expect the benefits the bigger companies give from a smaller company, which generally runs on much limited resources.
Here again, exploitation [if you call it so] is in smaller companies. You generally don't see that in bigger and well established organizations and this is a global phenomenon. You simply cannot pinpoint Indian companies on this issue.
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Ajmal,
The employment laws in US and UK are very stringent towards Worklife balance.
When you work outside your contractual hours you get overtime.
In most companies in India you are expected to work oitside your working hours and without pay.
I took the specific example of the Indian IT Industry. 90% of the developers are exploited.
I work for a 6000 strong company. I know of a 30000 and 45000+ size company as well.
Work life balance and laws in relation to that are yet to come into India.
From India, Bangalore
The employment laws in US and UK are very stringent towards Worklife balance.
When you work outside your contractual hours you get overtime.
In most companies in India you are expected to work oitside your working hours and without pay.
I took the specific example of the Indian IT Industry. 90% of the developers are exploited.
I work for a 6000 strong company. I know of a 30000 and 45000+ size company as well.
Work life balance and laws in relation to that are yet to come into India.
From India, Bangalore
Hi sankalp,
As far as the Laws are concerned in India we have laws which state that a person be paid overtime if he works for more than 8 hours a day or 48 hours a week. We also have laws regarding EL / Weekly Offs / Compensatory Offs / CLs & National Holidays.
I think that even in India the laws are pretty much stringent and specially in traditional industry it is well implemented[i.e. manufacturing] . Dr. Reddy's Lab for example pays overtime and shift allowance to its employees working in production.
At certain levels you are on the 24 hours call by the company. the same happens in US / UK where the employees are called on the cell even when they are holidaying with their family somewhere outside the city / country. It needs to be done because certain company activities depend on them which cannot be delegated to somebody else.
My friend in UK works for 12-18 hours at times, and does not get paid overtime.. Same happens with me here.. So where is the difference?
If we would think it from the perspective of a company we would get a broader sense of why a particular person is given more work.
Again, I Repeat, the exploitation [if you would call so] is done by the less established companies in all the countries [whether in India or Abroad] and is generally not seen [or negligible] in established organizations.
From India, Ahmadabad
As far as the Laws are concerned in India we have laws which state that a person be paid overtime if he works for more than 8 hours a day or 48 hours a week. We also have laws regarding EL / Weekly Offs / Compensatory Offs / CLs & National Holidays.
I think that even in India the laws are pretty much stringent and specially in traditional industry it is well implemented[i.e. manufacturing] . Dr. Reddy's Lab for example pays overtime and shift allowance to its employees working in production.
At certain levels you are on the 24 hours call by the company. the same happens in US / UK where the employees are called on the cell even when they are holidaying with their family somewhere outside the city / country. It needs to be done because certain company activities depend on them which cannot be delegated to somebody else.
My friend in UK works for 12-18 hours at times, and does not get paid overtime.. Same happens with me here.. So where is the difference?
If we would think it from the perspective of a company we would get a broader sense of why a particular person is given more work.
Again, I Repeat, the exploitation [if you would call so] is done by the less established companies in all the countries [whether in India or Abroad] and is generally not seen [or negligible] in established organizations.
From India, Ahmadabad
Hi all
This a extract from "The Best Companies To Work For In UK" by Sunday Times and the below mentioned company was rated at number 3.
By 45-55 hours in a week [for five days a week] it comes out to be around 10 hours a day... do you still think that is exploitation...
From India, Ahmadabad
This a extract from "The Best Companies To Work For In UK" by Sunday Times and the below mentioned company was rated at number 3.
By 45-55 hours in a week [for five days a week] it comes out to be around 10 hours a day... do you still think that is exploitation...
From India, Ahmadabad
DEAR Thesysthink /ajmal
i was out of loop...now i am back....i agree that consultancies are a breeding ground for exploitation..........ther was a time... i thought i would go to human rights commision... against my employer....nw i ahv settled a bit...carry on d gud work
regards
love u all
vishal
From India, Mumbai
i was out of loop...now i am back....i agree that consultancies are a breeding ground for exploitation..........ther was a time... i thought i would go to human rights commision... against my employer....nw i ahv settled a bit...carry on d gud work
regards
love u all
vishal
From India, Mumbai
Dear Colleagues,
I would try as much as possible to reason in a way supporting
Dr. Jogeshwar's thought process.
Sincerely labour is a matter of supply and demand which like any other industrial need has a price at any particular time.
This should take us to the international labour market place where diverse people are scrambling for jobs around the world-it becomes the issue of the fittestest of the fitest surviving.
For instance India has crossed the 1 billion human-being mark, it is better imagined the number of university graduates within this population and at the same number of available jobs/vacancies within its borders-hence the avalanche of its people migrating/navigating towards places where their services would at least be required no matter at what fee-we might seem to be exploitative-which to me it is relative.
On the whole I do not see Indian labour as been exploited-I see it as been conquering-come to the telecoms industry in my country-they have virtually taken over this territory as well as software development and implementation.
For the American labour market-it is a matter of who can give the best concession as per wages and obtainable income-while the American might want an income that would cover all his luxuries the Indian immigrant does not mind to let go all these seemingly funfares and stick to the basics.
Thanks.
From Nigeria, Lagos
I would try as much as possible to reason in a way supporting
Dr. Jogeshwar's thought process.
Sincerely labour is a matter of supply and demand which like any other industrial need has a price at any particular time.
This should take us to the international labour market place where diverse people are scrambling for jobs around the world-it becomes the issue of the fittestest of the fitest surviving.
For instance India has crossed the 1 billion human-being mark, it is better imagined the number of university graduates within this population and at the same number of available jobs/vacancies within its borders-hence the avalanche of its people migrating/navigating towards places where their services would at least be required no matter at what fee-we might seem to be exploitative-which to me it is relative.
On the whole I do not see Indian labour as been exploited-I see it as been conquering-come to the telecoms industry in my country-they have virtually taken over this territory as well as software development and implementation.
For the American labour market-it is a matter of who can give the best concession as per wages and obtainable income-while the American might want an income that would cover all his luxuries the Indian immigrant does not mind to let go all these seemingly funfares and stick to the basics.
Thanks.
From Nigeria, Lagos
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