HBJ,
The reply given by the learned colleague Mr Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate and limited to the scope of your enquiry . I appreciate it.
In my humble view, there is a lot to learn from his style of reply. One should avoid giving unsolicited views on things not sought by the querist and also try to score some brownie points by showing off image of being knowledgeable on each and every subject of query when one is not.
Another point, if you provide information as statutorily required,why should you pay any money to the visiting officer? Just think.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR and Employee Relations Consultant
From India, Mumbai
619The reply given by the learned colleague Mr Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate and limited to the scope of your enquiry . I appreciate it.
In my humble view, there is a lot to learn from his style of reply. One should avoid giving unsolicited views on things not sought by the querist and also try to score some brownie points by showing off image of being knowledgeable on each and every subject of query when one is not.
Another point, if you provide information as statutorily required,why should you pay any money to the visiting officer? Just think.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR and Employee Relations Consultant
From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr.Banerjee, Mr.Venu, Mr.Nagarkar, Thank you all for taking time to reply. It is interesting to know views of different people on an issue and how everyone would maybe tackle the same thing differently. Appreciate your inputs.
Vinayakji, all or definitely most officers expect to be given something, it is an unwritten rule. One cannot escape that if one wants to run a small industry peacefully. This is not to do anything illegal, but just to avoid any deliberate harrasment. In our 40 years of running an industry we have learnt that one cannot escape from this for getting work done in any Government department. There are minimum "fixed charges" that one must consider otherwise run around the offices and officers. I think it's better not to get into that debate. This is nothing new or no secret.
From India, Aurangabad
Vinayakji, all or definitely most officers expect to be given something, it is an unwritten rule. One cannot escape that if one wants to run a small industry peacefully. This is not to do anything illegal, but just to avoid any deliberate harrasment. In our 40 years of running an industry we have learnt that one cannot escape from this for getting work done in any Government department. There are minimum "fixed charges" that one must consider otherwise run around the offices and officers. I think it's better not to get into that debate. This is nothing new or no secret.
From India, Aurangabad
Information which organisations are to give are always laid down.Please provide the information in prescribed form.
Have a check list of forms and dates by which information is to be submitted and legal authority for giving the information.
There is no need to give any thing beyond that.The babu may want extra things but politely sidestep the matter and just provide information as per the form.
Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done.NSO is a statistical organisation which collects statistics-that is all.
I have been dealing with various babus during my employment period and apart from a cup of tea extra nothing was ever given.But I knew what return is to be filed and by which date.
So have your return information,dates,schedules ready and do things meticulously and in time.
From India, Pune
Have a check list of forms and dates by which information is to be submitted and legal authority for giving the information.
There is no need to give any thing beyond that.The babu may want extra things but politely sidestep the matter and just provide information as per the form.
Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done.NSO is a statistical organisation which collects statistics-that is all.
I have been dealing with various babus during my employment period and apart from a cup of tea extra nothing was ever given.But I knew what return is to be filed and by which date.
So have your return information,dates,schedules ready and do things meticulously and in time.
From India, Pune
Rightly said by Mr Nagarkar “The reply given by Mr Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate and limited to the scope of your enquiry”, as usual he does for every post.
I would like to explain my view. I am working in an MNC which built and maintain water treatment plants. We have taken Factory Licence for some plants. As per discussion with the ASI Inspector “when we take Factory Licence our file goes to Statistics Dept. as well. Through ASI Return they collect various data”.
Rightly said by Mr Dinesh “the data is useful for “Economical Research” and for making policies.
Dear Mr HBJ,
Through the Balance Sheet, the Inspector trace out what kind of major exp. are claimed in the P/L for the unit. Moreover, various factors related to manpower are also checked and filled in the Return (like, No. of personnel deployed (men-women), No. of mandays worked and mandays paid, PF-ESI, Bonus etc.).
I slightly differ from Mr Natharao. Yes it is good practice to maintain information in prescribed format. But following all labour laws, employment laws and statutory compliance is very difficult.
But as per my opinion, it is always not possible to follow “Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done".
Yes, we can deny for illegal demand, if our data is absolutely correct. But in case we did any mistake (which is obvious in this day to day changing environment) and the Inspector deny to co-operate then it will be more difficult. Moreover in case of ASI Return Senior Inspector/s visit the site/office not any “Babu”. We should practically take up the issue to accomplish the job as a whole.
I use to arrange the meeting at site, collect company balance sheet and maintain contractual Labour data. On basis of the data Return is prepared and the Inspector give us acknowledged copy.
It is nice to read views of senior members on this unique issue.
From India, Delhi
I would like to explain my view. I am working in an MNC which built and maintain water treatment plants. We have taken Factory Licence for some plants. As per discussion with the ASI Inspector “when we take Factory Licence our file goes to Statistics Dept. as well. Through ASI Return they collect various data”.
Rightly said by Mr Dinesh “the data is useful for “Economical Research” and for making policies.
Dear Mr HBJ,
Through the Balance Sheet, the Inspector trace out what kind of major exp. are claimed in the P/L for the unit. Moreover, various factors related to manpower are also checked and filled in the Return (like, No. of personnel deployed (men-women), No. of mandays worked and mandays paid, PF-ESI, Bonus etc.).
I slightly differ from Mr Natharao. Yes it is good practice to maintain information in prescribed format. But following all labour laws, employment laws and statutory compliance is very difficult.
But as per my opinion, it is always not possible to follow “Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done".
Yes, we can deny for illegal demand, if our data is absolutely correct. But in case we did any mistake (which is obvious in this day to day changing environment) and the Inspector deny to co-operate then it will be more difficult. Moreover in case of ASI Return Senior Inspector/s visit the site/office not any “Babu”. We should practically take up the issue to accomplish the job as a whole.
I use to arrange the meeting at site, collect company balance sheet and maintain contractual Labour data. On basis of the data Return is prepared and the Inspector give us acknowledged copy.
It is nice to read views of senior members on this unique issue.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr Pan Singh
With regard to your comment "I slightly differ from Mr Natharao."
I want to clarify.
Idea of stressing on complete records is to set high standards.In real life it may not be 100% practical to be 100% right all the time.
But if we allow compromises, then we will fail to complete compliances in time.
Most big units have a third party auditing compliances and ensuring that unit is complaint to best extent possible.
Inspectors need to be treated respectfully and given full cooperation to ensure unit is not dragged into legal issues, but that does not mean going further into unhealthy practise.
So best is to be compliant and reduce any element of friction with Babus.(Babu is used in general manner.)
Hope this clarifies
From India, Pune
With regard to your comment "I slightly differ from Mr Natharao."
I want to clarify.
Idea of stressing on complete records is to set high standards.In real life it may not be 100% practical to be 100% right all the time.
But if we allow compromises, then we will fail to complete compliances in time.
Most big units have a third party auditing compliances and ensuring that unit is complaint to best extent possible.
Inspectors need to be treated respectfully and given full cooperation to ensure unit is not dragged into legal issues, but that does not mean going further into unhealthy practise.
So best is to be compliant and reduce any element of friction with Babus.(Babu is used in general manner.)
Hope this clarifies
From India, Pune
Dear Mr.Pan Singh, Mr.Nathrao, thanks for the replies
Truth is that nothing works without greasing palms. For the statistical department maybe one may even get away with not giving anything but there are other departments where a small company cannot escape. We have had demands from the PF department without fulfilling which online PF claims after retirement are held up due to small errors in the paperwork or some technical reason. You may say that if there are errors then they have the right to hold the payment. But if the error was serious then after fulfilling the demands how does the error get resolved. Government babus are supposed to help the people and not make them run around the offices which may be 30-40 kms away from small industrial towns. The person gets frustrated and gives in. This is not an isolated incident but a well set practice. If one is doing something illegal then the demand is much much more, not just a small amount but that's a different thing. Mostly even for getting their own money the employees have to give something to PF.
I think it would be best to leave this debate as it is as every company may have a different take on this. Large MNC's may be able to maintain perfect paperwork as they have the resources but small companies struggle and instead of getting the correct advice from the department, their demands have to be fulfilled. This is the harsh reality in any department.
From India, Aurangabad
Truth is that nothing works without greasing palms. For the statistical department maybe one may even get away with not giving anything but there are other departments where a small company cannot escape. We have had demands from the PF department without fulfilling which online PF claims after retirement are held up due to small errors in the paperwork or some technical reason. You may say that if there are errors then they have the right to hold the payment. But if the error was serious then after fulfilling the demands how does the error get resolved. Government babus are supposed to help the people and not make them run around the offices which may be 30-40 kms away from small industrial towns. The person gets frustrated and gives in. This is not an isolated incident but a well set practice. If one is doing something illegal then the demand is much much more, not just a small amount but that's a different thing. Mostly even for getting their own money the employees have to give something to PF.
I think it would be best to leave this debate as it is as every company may have a different take on this. Large MNC's may be able to maintain perfect paperwork as they have the resources but small companies struggle and instead of getting the correct advice from the department, their demands have to be fulfilled. This is the harsh reality in any department.
From India, Aurangabad
Community Support and Knowledge-base on business, career and organisational prospects and issues - Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query, download formats and be part of a fostered community of professionals.
HR department.zip
Setup HR Department.doc