Dear All,
My daughter completed her CA in first attempt in Nov. 2013 and opted to go for IIM. Unfortunately she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for MBA. She accepted that she has not taken seriously.Then she started looking for the job in Pune, Mumbai but not able pass interview for 3-4 companies. She lost interest in attending interview and now a days not even applying for any openings.
Now she has enrolled for CFA and currently preparing for November exam.Through out her educational career she was always on top rank. She passed her SSC, HSC and B.COM with distinction. I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain. Can anyone suggest a reputed institute where she will be able to learn technics of attending interview & develop her personality. There are many I can see on net but I am looking for the best one anywhere in Pune or Mumbai.
I will appreciate if any one of our member from Finance background can help her to suggest openings available in their company. In her article ship she was considered to be the best among there group. She completed her article ship from one of the top firm from Pune.
Best regards,
VIJAY
From United Arab Emirates, Ras Al Khaimah
12My daughter completed her CA in first attempt in Nov. 2013 and opted to go for IIM. Unfortunately she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for MBA. She accepted that she has not taken seriously.Then she started looking for the job in Pune, Mumbai but not able pass interview for 3-4 companies. She lost interest in attending interview and now a days not even applying for any openings.
Now she has enrolled for CFA and currently preparing for November exam.Through out her educational career she was always on top rank. She passed her SSC, HSC and B.COM with distinction. I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain. Can anyone suggest a reputed institute where she will be able to learn technics of attending interview & develop her personality. There are many I can see on net but I am looking for the best one anywhere in Pune or Mumbai.
I will appreciate if any one of our member from Finance background can help her to suggest openings available in their company. In her article ship she was considered to be the best among there group. She completed her article ship from one of the top firm from Pune.
Best regards,
VIJAY
From United Arab Emirates, Ras Al Khaimah
Dear Mr Vijay,
After going through the entire case of your daughter I can infer that what she needs is counselling. Therefore, I recommend you taking help of professional counsellor. Finance professionals may not be good in career counselling. If you had been from Bangalore, I would have recommended you a very good counsellor who would have enhanced her self-esteem. Secondly, you have not mentioned, why your daughter could not get through the job interview even though she was top ranker all along in her education.
General comments: - The story of poster's daughter shows that bookish knowledge does not build one's personality. Partially it bogs down to our education system. Our education system makes students concerned only for the examination and nothing else. Generally most of the written examinations last for three hours. Therefore, all that students have to do is to learn how to manage those 180 minutes of their life. Nevertheless, what our education system misses is application part of the knowledge. When students do not have clue as to where to apply the knowledge, when to apply and how to apply they develop fear of this kind. Student's brains are not grounds to dump knowledge. Our education system is yet to realise this. In contrast, western countries teach how to use someone else's knowledge and prosper!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
After going through the entire case of your daughter I can infer that what she needs is counselling. Therefore, I recommend you taking help of professional counsellor. Finance professionals may not be good in career counselling. If you had been from Bangalore, I would have recommended you a very good counsellor who would have enhanced her self-esteem. Secondly, you have not mentioned, why your daughter could not get through the job interview even though she was top ranker all along in her education.
General comments: - The story of poster's daughter shows that bookish knowledge does not build one's personality. Partially it bogs down to our education system. Our education system makes students concerned only for the examination and nothing else. Generally most of the written examinations last for three hours. Therefore, all that students have to do is to learn how to manage those 180 minutes of their life. Nevertheless, what our education system misses is application part of the knowledge. When students do not have clue as to where to apply the knowledge, when to apply and how to apply they develop fear of this kind. Student's brains are not grounds to dump knowledge. Our education system is yet to realise this. In contrast, western countries teach how to use someone else's knowledge and prosper!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Hello Vijay,
I join other members in sharing your concern about your daughter.
Her academic background & the current situation.....as you described.....don't seem to jell in a few aspects.
There are a few points that need clarity.
1] What are her non-academic interests/hobbies? Pl mention reg 'has she been a bookworm while studying', 'did she ever have any friends in school/college as well as outside', 'did she participate in any extra-curricular activities @ school/college', etc.
2] Prima-facie, she seems to have a semblance of over-confidence thus far--not very uncommon in top-scoring students. This is corroborated by what you mentioned--"she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for MBA" AND "She accepted that she has not taken seriously".
Quite often, such top-notch students take things for granted.....in whatever they do, UNTIL they get hit by reality that the efforts HAVE TO MATCH the goals, irrespective of past achievements.
3] Did you have a clear & open discussion with her? Is her interest towards a job OR academics?
I clearly see a sign [I MAY be wrong....but THINK am right] of family pressure to get into a job than doing any further studies.
You mentioned she is preparing for CFA Exams in November.........then what does this line of your's "I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain" mean? Convince for/against WHAT?
4] What's the basis on which you conclude that she HAS THE NEED TO develop her personality?
Frankly, many....NOT most......parents THINK they know their children's aspirations & interests the best--BASED ON THEIR views of life. And quite often, they realize that they were wrong after it's too late......that what's good for goose MAY NOT necessarily be good for the gander.
The pity in the whole situation is that the parents SURELY & DEFINITELY have the interest of the child in mind......so the intent is not & never is suspect......only the failure to see that the goals & methods COULD be different.
And the other pitiable aspect in this is that NO child.....unless there's been any past history of child abuse/disregard.......likes to say 'NO' to his/her parents when he/she knows what's in their minds. Typically, they just 'keep shut' which actually leads to the whole issue taking different turns & possible WRONG diagnosis of the situation.
I am NOT saying this from theory......I have practical experiences of having handled such situations [some which I managed to avert/correct well in time & some just had to watch when whole careers/lives were literally going for a toss].
Frankly, at this point of time, I DON'T see any need for any counselling or special courses....
Suggest pl give your responses to the above queries.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I join other members in sharing your concern about your daughter.
Her academic background & the current situation.....as you described.....don't seem to jell in a few aspects.
There are a few points that need clarity.
1] What are her non-academic interests/hobbies? Pl mention reg 'has she been a bookworm while studying', 'did she ever have any friends in school/college as well as outside', 'did she participate in any extra-curricular activities @ school/college', etc.
2] Prima-facie, she seems to have a semblance of over-confidence thus far--not very uncommon in top-scoring students. This is corroborated by what you mentioned--"she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for MBA" AND "She accepted that she has not taken seriously".
Quite often, such top-notch students take things for granted.....in whatever they do, UNTIL they get hit by reality that the efforts HAVE TO MATCH the goals, irrespective of past achievements.
3] Did you have a clear & open discussion with her? Is her interest towards a job OR academics?
I clearly see a sign [I MAY be wrong....but THINK am right] of family pressure to get into a job than doing any further studies.
You mentioned she is preparing for CFA Exams in November.........then what does this line of your's "I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain" mean? Convince for/against WHAT?
4] What's the basis on which you conclude that she HAS THE NEED TO develop her personality?
Frankly, many....NOT most......parents THINK they know their children's aspirations & interests the best--BASED ON THEIR views of life. And quite often, they realize that they were wrong after it's too late......that what's good for goose MAY NOT necessarily be good for the gander.
The pity in the whole situation is that the parents SURELY & DEFINITELY have the interest of the child in mind......so the intent is not & never is suspect......only the failure to see that the goals & methods COULD be different.
And the other pitiable aspect in this is that NO child.....unless there's been any past history of child abuse/disregard.......likes to say 'NO' to his/her parents when he/she knows what's in their minds. Typically, they just 'keep shut' which actually leads to the whole issue taking different turns & possible WRONG diagnosis of the situation.
I am NOT saying this from theory......I have practical experiences of having handled such situations [some which I managed to avert/correct well in time & some just had to watch when whole careers/lives were literally going for a toss].
Frankly, at this point of time, I DON'T see any need for any counselling or special courses....
Suggest pl give your responses to the above queries.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
// Student's brains are not grounds to dump knowledge. Our education system is yet to realise this. In contrast, western countries teach how to use someone else's knowledge and prosper! //
True words Dineshji. Thanks for your post, also I thank all our august members for their concern for this vibrant topic.
From India, New Delhi
True words Dineshji. Thanks for your post, also I thank all our august members for their concern for this vibrant topic.
From India, New Delhi
Dear Vijay,
Our learned members have given good suggestions and raised valid questions; please let me add a couple of questions before making a comment. Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful? In the West most companies respond if asked. As I left India long ago, I do not know if organisations give such feedback. However, it's worth trying.
Has she tried in the company where she did her "articleship"? If not, why not?
If I am correct, 90% plus seats in IIMs are bagged by students with an engineering background and thus the competition is very stiff. KIndly read and digest info at Engineers will continue to dominate IIM campuses | Business Standard News
It's very easy to lose heart when faced with failure for top rank students. However, your daughter should not fall into the vicious cycle.
For the time being, let her concentrate on the CFA exam, if that's what she prefers.
Like others have mentioned, In India, parents try to influence what children have to do and also keep stressing on becoming a TOPPER in the class. However, my experience in the West is to let children do what they want and not compare them with others and not expect them to become TOPPERS.
From United Kingdom
Our learned members have given good suggestions and raised valid questions; please let me add a couple of questions before making a comment. Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful? In the West most companies respond if asked. As I left India long ago, I do not know if organisations give such feedback. However, it's worth trying.
Has she tried in the company where she did her "articleship"? If not, why not?
If I am correct, 90% plus seats in IIMs are bagged by students with an engineering background and thus the competition is very stiff. KIndly read and digest info at Engineers will continue to dominate IIM campuses | Business Standard News
It's very easy to lose heart when faced with failure for top rank students. However, your daughter should not fall into the vicious cycle.
For the time being, let her concentrate on the CFA exam, if that's what she prefers.
Like others have mentioned, In India, parents try to influence what children have to do and also keep stressing on becoming a TOPPER in the class. However, my experience in the West is to let children do what they want and not compare them with others and not expect them to become TOPPERS.
From United Kingdom
Hello Simhan,
Reg your comments "Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful?"--forget about it.
Most Companies in India don't even give the feedback 'that's meaningful' to those who refer the candidates [including Agencies], what to speak of the interviewees themselves.
I stressed 'that's meaningful' since saying 'technically rejected or not selected' can mean anything under the Sun.
And there are many Companies that don't really care about the sensibilities of the individual.....the word 'rejected' is used in the same sense & breath as they would use 'selected', even though there are many ways to convey the same meaning without disheartening the candidate.
I guess you can't win them all until the Companies themselves realize that they owe something to the interviewees.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Reg your comments "Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful?"--forget about it.
Most Companies in India don't even give the feedback 'that's meaningful' to those who refer the candidates [including Agencies], what to speak of the interviewees themselves.
I stressed 'that's meaningful' since saying 'technically rejected or not selected' can mean anything under the Sun.
And there are many Companies that don't really care about the sensibilities of the individual.....the word 'rejected' is used in the same sense & breath as they would use 'selected', even though there are many ways to convey the same meaning without disheartening the candidate.
I guess you can't win them all until the Companies themselves realize that they owe something to the interviewees.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear TS, our daughter is a family physician and the General Practices generally give feedback, when asked. Same goes for some companies.
Dear Nathrao and TS, you are both right. Till companies realise that even in a buyers' market they owe some explanation to rejected candidates, as to how they could improve their chances of selection, things will not change. The candidates get frustrated.
From United Kingdom
Dear Nathrao and TS, you are both right. Till companies realise that even in a buyers' market they owe some explanation to rejected candidates, as to how they could improve their chances of selection, things will not change. The candidates get frustrated.
From United Kingdom
Hello Vijay,
Just to add to what I mentioned/suggested earlier.
Though I am NOT a Finance guy, by virtue of being in a profession where learning about the latest trends & disruptive sectors/fields that proliferate all over all the time--as a necessity & daily routine than as a hobby--I can say that CFA is not something that anyone can get thru.
It's highly valued in Top-notch Companies--needless to say, it's also very tough to clear & is NOT for the average students.
Here's the Link for your ready reference:
CFA Program
In addition to the effort involved, the only other aspect that needs to be kept in mind would be the timeframes....it takes ~2 yrs to attain the CFA tail after one's name.
Though this MAY seem obtrusive, I would venture to add: when the kid is raring to fly, as a parent, it wouldn't be appropriate to hold him/her like a crab & keep pulling him/her to hold him/her down. The best current-day's example for this would be Saina Nehwal......
Like V.Raghunathan mentioned, pl do give your views.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Just to add to what I mentioned/suggested earlier.
Though I am NOT a Finance guy, by virtue of being in a profession where learning about the latest trends & disruptive sectors/fields that proliferate all over all the time--as a necessity & daily routine than as a hobby--I can say that CFA is not something that anyone can get thru.
It's highly valued in Top-notch Companies--needless to say, it's also very tough to clear & is NOT for the average students.
Here's the Link for your ready reference:
CFA Program
In addition to the effort involved, the only other aspect that needs to be kept in mind would be the timeframes....it takes ~2 yrs to attain the CFA tail after one's name.
Though this MAY seem obtrusive, I would venture to add: when the kid is raring to fly, as a parent, it wouldn't be appropriate to hold him/her like a crab & keep pulling him/her to hold him/her down. The best current-day's example for this would be Saina Nehwal......
Like V.Raghunathan mentioned, pl do give your views.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
With a long history of training people in job search and interview skills, I can concur with most of the comments posted thus far.
The issue of self-confidence, and ability to cope with interviews is a tricky one. Some people are natural talkers, others shy and reserved. There are no easy answers.
But, as others have pointed out, preparation is the key to success, and will go a long way towards enabling a candidate to perform well. But, in truth, that really only works when employers have a proper set of questions based on the skills and experience needed to do the job. Then the candidate can prepare confidently, based on the position description. However, too many interviewers go down the path of asking totally irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the job in question. And there is this idiotic trend of asking things like how many cabs are there in New York City or something like that.
When faced with that sort of rubbish, it is not surprising that candidates fall in a heap, and lose confidence. I am not disagreeing that candidates need to show ability to think on their feet, be creative, and to also show resilience. However, there are better ways of doing it.
I am not sure what it is like in India, but in the West, there is a growing tendency for parents to try and shield their children from hurt and disappointment. There are no winners and losers, everyone gets a prize, etc. Wrapping children in bubble wrap does nothing for their ability to cope with the real world, and that is sad.
I am sure everyone of us here on CiteHR has been unsuccessful at more than one interview. We try to learn from our mistakes, we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again. It is part of our growth and development as human beings. It gives us the resilience to cope with the bigger disasters that can befall us along the way.
Finally on the subject of feedback from interviews. Many employers will not give feedback. That's a given. However, sometimes it is in the way you ask. I always tell people that if they decide to seek feedback, you start by thanking the employer for the opportunity of the interview. Then you ask what you would need to do to be successful next time a position like this comes up. It won't always work, but sometimes disarms the interviewer enough to coax them into giving some pointers. It goes without saying that you never burn your bridges. They may have liked you, but another candidate was stronger on THIS occasion.
From Australia, Melbourne
The issue of self-confidence, and ability to cope with interviews is a tricky one. Some people are natural talkers, others shy and reserved. There are no easy answers.
But, as others have pointed out, preparation is the key to success, and will go a long way towards enabling a candidate to perform well. But, in truth, that really only works when employers have a proper set of questions based on the skills and experience needed to do the job. Then the candidate can prepare confidently, based on the position description. However, too many interviewers go down the path of asking totally irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the job in question. And there is this idiotic trend of asking things like how many cabs are there in New York City or something like that.
When faced with that sort of rubbish, it is not surprising that candidates fall in a heap, and lose confidence. I am not disagreeing that candidates need to show ability to think on their feet, be creative, and to also show resilience. However, there are better ways of doing it.
I am not sure what it is like in India, but in the West, there is a growing tendency for parents to try and shield their children from hurt and disappointment. There are no winners and losers, everyone gets a prize, etc. Wrapping children in bubble wrap does nothing for their ability to cope with the real world, and that is sad.
I am sure everyone of us here on CiteHR has been unsuccessful at more than one interview. We try to learn from our mistakes, we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again. It is part of our growth and development as human beings. It gives us the resilience to cope with the bigger disasters that can befall us along the way.
Finally on the subject of feedback from interviews. Many employers will not give feedback. That's a given. However, sometimes it is in the way you ask. I always tell people that if they decide to seek feedback, you start by thanking the employer for the opportunity of the interview. Then you ask what you would need to do to be successful next time a position like this comes up. It won't always work, but sometimes disarms the interviewer enough to coax them into giving some pointers. It goes without saying that you never burn your bridges. They may have liked you, but another candidate was stronger on THIS occasion.
From Australia, Melbourne
Vijay,
I think the problem lies with the fact that your daughter has a sense of overconfidence, probably from the praise that you and your family heaped on her. She was topper in school and college. Well it is immaterial. Was she a top 10 ranked in CA ? If not she is at the same level more or less as 1000s of other CA looking for jobs in the market.
So,who told her that every company out there is just waiting for grabbing her ? How did she get convinced that she would get a job in the first interview she gave ? I suspect it was you. Today the demand for freshers is low as experienced persons are available all over the place. Attending 20 interviews for a job is common.
From your post it appears to me that the problem was created by you. Like you are stressing on her interview skills. Which means you are still thinking that she should have got the first job. And that its her interview skills alone that was the problem.
Now, first disabuse your self of the fact that the job is easy to get. Explain to her that the longer she is out of job the more difficult it will be to get one. So she needs to get a job quickly even if it's not what she was told is worthwhile for her to do.
Try to see if the firm she did articles with has a place for her.
If not, sit with her and go through recruitment advt to see which one is worth applying. And help her do that. Ensure that she goes with the understanding that she may not get the job and that attending more interviews is important for when she goes for the one she wants.
Btw, there will hardly be jobs for CFA in pune.
From India, Mumbai
I think the problem lies with the fact that your daughter has a sense of overconfidence, probably from the praise that you and your family heaped on her. She was topper in school and college. Well it is immaterial. Was she a top 10 ranked in CA ? If not she is at the same level more or less as 1000s of other CA looking for jobs in the market.
So,who told her that every company out there is just waiting for grabbing her ? How did she get convinced that she would get a job in the first interview she gave ? I suspect it was you. Today the demand for freshers is low as experienced persons are available all over the place. Attending 20 interviews for a job is common.
From your post it appears to me that the problem was created by you. Like you are stressing on her interview skills. Which means you are still thinking that she should have got the first job. And that its her interview skills alone that was the problem.
Now, first disabuse your self of the fact that the job is easy to get. Explain to her that the longer she is out of job the more difficult it will be to get one. So she needs to get a job quickly even if it's not what she was told is worthwhile for her to do.
Try to see if the firm she did articles with has a place for her.
If not, sit with her and go through recruitment advt to see which one is worth applying. And help her do that. Ensure that she goes with the understanding that she may not get the job and that attending more interviews is important for when she goes for the one she wants.
Btw, there will hardly be jobs for CFA in pune.
From India, Mumbai
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