If you are a true Human Resource Professional ,,,, try and analyse this
Hi friends,
Almost every one of us has interaction with Govt Employees in our life, there must also be members whose parents, relatives, friends, themselves are Govt Employees. Many times you must have observed that while waiting in a Q in any Govt office, a conversation usually starts in the Public, about the clerk, Officer who has kept them waiting in a Q,, It usually goes on like
Arre itni der se ek hi form process kiya,,
line aage kyun nahi baad rahi hai???
arre uska kya wo to sarkari naukar hai,, aaram se kaam karega
and some 2-3 active members line begin to criticize that all Government employees are lazy and useless and dont do any work..... till their time comes.....
BUT HAVE YOU REALLY GIVEN A THINKING TO THE POINT THAT are GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES REALLY CORRUPT, LAZY etc.
I also used to think earlier that Govt Employees are lazy and dont do any work. But then there are some points which if considered may change the view of a person who thinks all Govt Employees are not lazy.
Majority of people are of the view that all Govt Employees are lazy... but have we ever thought that why does the govt employee behave with you very cold, non interest to serve you. From the below I could point out the following facts which may describe the behaviour of Govt employees.
Facts:
There is no HR dept in Govt organisations , they have a centralised management which issues orders / circulars and is usually the head office people.. so naturally having 10 Hr depts in 10 locations , + 1 HR dept at head office would make difference than having 10 locations + 1 head office and HR being centrally organised,
In your organisation you must be having many appraisal formats, procedures, awards like giving free movie tickets, arranging parties for employees, fun with work as you may say.
But do you know that Govt employees dont have performance appraisal, they have one annual ACR (Annual confidential report) as name suggests even I dont know what my supervisor has written in my ACR.
In any govt organisation the TOP MANAGEMENT people are really hardworking almost every one overloaded with work , having many professional educational qualifications, excellent academic records, awards, achievements to their credit. As it goes we Indians are good planners but bad executors. The top management is all excellent but by the time through the tedious, slow procedures it reaches the most low end executioners, who are only people with whom you interact during your work schedule, it does not get implemented at all. If someone has interacted with higher officials of Govt organisations they can explain further that the top management is really disciplined, quality oriented and professional.
Some lower end executors like in the case of railways are also overloaded with work, since there is no frequent recruitment going on,, even take the case of a signalling man,, his single mistake could create a major disaster. Still when you visit a station, you wont help from complaining the dirtiness of station (it is we citizens who dirty the stations, throw rubbish here and there)....
the train delays,, ( as compared with other countries, what better can you expect from the worlds largest railway network that too operating on technologies less advanced than other countries)
What I observe is that the employees want to excel, but their job gives them no opportunity to show their skills and grow, so ultimately within some 2-3 years their attitude also becomes like let it be, why should i do it now, and they become resistant to change since there is no one to encourage them, no one to provide them training, no one to upgrade their skills, no one for their potential appraisal, no speedy redressal of grievances and the very slow tedious rules.. I myself have observed that in govt you have to go as per SOP or standard operating procedures,, so most people may comment that the clerk is lazy when he tells that there is no stamp avl in post office, some may even question him, why there is no stamp and he may rudely reply, NO... but the truth is the rules are such as he cant do anything to bring the stamps they will come as per rule procedures, and he is not allowed to break them..
In govt authority is of very much importance, and every one has his own authority,, and he cannot do another persons work, unless intimation in written is received. The thing is that it so happens that the next day he is questioned WHY DID U DO THIS, DO YOU HAVE AN ORDER, so ultimately the attitude is not to take initiative, as instead of encouraging its discouraging to take initiative..
mostly the top management is all overloaded and there is a big communication gap between the TOP and DOWN LEVEL,,
Also accepted some are corrupt, avoid work, but its better not to discuss those things here.
Main is as a HR professional if such type of an organisation comes under you as a HR professional, what steps would you take to improve it, though you may be working for MNCs ,, but how would it be if our Indian Govt is improved...
we all discuss about MANAGEMENT so i thought to initiate this discussion, as this situation affects all of us.
From India, Pune
54Hi friends,
Almost every one of us has interaction with Govt Employees in our life, there must also be members whose parents, relatives, friends, themselves are Govt Employees. Many times you must have observed that while waiting in a Q in any Govt office, a conversation usually starts in the Public, about the clerk, Officer who has kept them waiting in a Q,, It usually goes on like
Arre itni der se ek hi form process kiya,,
line aage kyun nahi baad rahi hai???
arre uska kya wo to sarkari naukar hai,, aaram se kaam karega
and some 2-3 active members line begin to criticize that all Government employees are lazy and useless and dont do any work..... till their time comes.....
BUT HAVE YOU REALLY GIVEN A THINKING TO THE POINT THAT are GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES REALLY CORRUPT, LAZY etc.
I also used to think earlier that Govt Employees are lazy and dont do any work. But then there are some points which if considered may change the view of a person who thinks all Govt Employees are not lazy.
Majority of people are of the view that all Govt Employees are lazy... but have we ever thought that why does the govt employee behave with you very cold, non interest to serve you. From the below I could point out the following facts which may describe the behaviour of Govt employees.
Facts:
There is no HR dept in Govt organisations , they have a centralised management which issues orders / circulars and is usually the head office people.. so naturally having 10 Hr depts in 10 locations , + 1 HR dept at head office would make difference than having 10 locations + 1 head office and HR being centrally organised,
In your organisation you must be having many appraisal formats, procedures, awards like giving free movie tickets, arranging parties for employees, fun with work as you may say.
But do you know that Govt employees dont have performance appraisal, they have one annual ACR (Annual confidential report) as name suggests even I dont know what my supervisor has written in my ACR.
In any govt organisation the TOP MANAGEMENT people are really hardworking almost every one overloaded with work , having many professional educational qualifications, excellent academic records, awards, achievements to their credit. As it goes we Indians are good planners but bad executors. The top management is all excellent but by the time through the tedious, slow procedures it reaches the most low end executioners, who are only people with whom you interact during your work schedule, it does not get implemented at all. If someone has interacted with higher officials of Govt organisations they can explain further that the top management is really disciplined, quality oriented and professional.
Some lower end executors like in the case of railways are also overloaded with work, since there is no frequent recruitment going on,, even take the case of a signalling man,, his single mistake could create a major disaster. Still when you visit a station, you wont help from complaining the dirtiness of station (it is we citizens who dirty the stations, throw rubbish here and there)....
the train delays,, ( as compared with other countries, what better can you expect from the worlds largest railway network that too operating on technologies less advanced than other countries)
What I observe is that the employees want to excel, but their job gives them no opportunity to show their skills and grow, so ultimately within some 2-3 years their attitude also becomes like let it be, why should i do it now, and they become resistant to change since there is no one to encourage them, no one to provide them training, no one to upgrade their skills, no one for their potential appraisal, no speedy redressal of grievances and the very slow tedious rules.. I myself have observed that in govt you have to go as per SOP or standard operating procedures,, so most people may comment that the clerk is lazy when he tells that there is no stamp avl in post office, some may even question him, why there is no stamp and he may rudely reply, NO... but the truth is the rules are such as he cant do anything to bring the stamps they will come as per rule procedures, and he is not allowed to break them..
In govt authority is of very much importance, and every one has his own authority,, and he cannot do another persons work, unless intimation in written is received. The thing is that it so happens that the next day he is questioned WHY DID U DO THIS, DO YOU HAVE AN ORDER, so ultimately the attitude is not to take initiative, as instead of encouraging its discouraging to take initiative..
mostly the top management is all overloaded and there is a big communication gap between the TOP and DOWN LEVEL,,
Also accepted some are corrupt, avoid work, but its better not to discuss those things here.
Main is as a HR professional if such type of an organisation comes under you as a HR professional, what steps would you take to improve it, though you may be working for MNCs ,, but how would it be if our Indian Govt is improved...
we all discuss about MANAGEMENT so i thought to initiate this discussion, as this situation affects all of us.
From India, Pune
Hi Ravishankar,
My Details :
Name : Tikam Singh Shekhawat
Designation: AM-HR
Industry : Software
Total Work : 4 years ( 2 years for Govt. Of India-Ministry of defence)
Topic is good and i expect major HR's to see it. you have raised a important arene for today HR's. Well Lets clear some fundas with reference to the posting.
Major Govt offices don't have outlook/intra communication OR SAP as we
have in MNC's. Its all paper work. Every singly file or application goes through series of officer lie
labour/opertor ->clerk -> Head Of Section -> Asst Works Mananger --> Works Manager --> joint General Mananger --> Add General Mananger/Admin Officer ---> General Mananger.
Every single file for ex a request file for getting a permission for training at some different govt. office has to be go as per this channel .
This is called--- Prper Channel in govt terminology. With this if in this channel any off the officer puts the negative remarks then file is rejected. And it is difficult to get a coherent decision from all if the request is from the Operator of Lower rank person because if somebody is on leave or in meeting the same file can take some days.
Second aspect is at lower posts attrition is very low so employee relations may not be as effective as you have in service sector.
And yes they do have HR's and that too more in comparison to what we have per location and these HR's are not like us like Specialist in recruitment or Payroll
Like Railways Or Central Govt Offices they Have sections
Establishment
Bill group: (payroll in our terms)
LB: Labour Bureao
LO: Labour Office
Every section has almost 10+ employees .
there are many more thing to tell,Bit busy today
Thanks & regards,
Tikam Singh
09823509139
From India, Pune
My Details :
Name : Tikam Singh Shekhawat
Designation: AM-HR
Industry : Software
Total Work : 4 years ( 2 years for Govt. Of India-Ministry of defence)
Topic is good and i expect major HR's to see it. you have raised a important arene for today HR's. Well Lets clear some fundas with reference to the posting.
Major Govt offices don't have outlook/intra communication OR SAP as we
have in MNC's. Its all paper work. Every singly file or application goes through series of officer lie
labour/opertor ->clerk -> Head Of Section -> Asst Works Mananger --> Works Manager --> joint General Mananger --> Add General Mananger/Admin Officer ---> General Mananger.
Every single file for ex a request file for getting a permission for training at some different govt. office has to be go as per this channel .
This is called--- Prper Channel in govt terminology. With this if in this channel any off the officer puts the negative remarks then file is rejected. And it is difficult to get a coherent decision from all if the request is from the Operator of Lower rank person because if somebody is on leave or in meeting the same file can take some days.
Second aspect is at lower posts attrition is very low so employee relations may not be as effective as you have in service sector.
And yes they do have HR's and that too more in comparison to what we have per location and these HR's are not like us like Specialist in recruitment or Payroll
Like Railways Or Central Govt Offices they Have sections
Establishment
Bill group: (payroll in our terms)
LB: Labour Bureao
LO: Labour Office
Every section has almost 10+ employees .
there are many more thing to tell,Bit busy today
Thanks & regards,
Tikam Singh
09823509139
From India, Pune
Mr. Tikam Singh,,
thanks for your comments, even i wanted to write more,,,
here are more inputs...
In govt organisations if a person is applying for another govt job,, he needs to forward the communication through proper channel , i.e his office forwards his application,,, so the people in ur office would know ur searching for a job, as only the application forwarded by your office would be treated as valid,,, and your admn officer would need to submit ACR reports of last 5 yrs (some cases i think ) , + a clearance report from vigilance officer ,,, in some cases ..... and in a year only u can apply for some 3-4 times... . So if your superior comes to know about this, it can be a problem for u depending on ur superior.
Ever wondered how easily we can hop jobs in private,.....
From India, Pune
thanks for your comments, even i wanted to write more,,,
here are more inputs...
In govt organisations if a person is applying for another govt job,, he needs to forward the communication through proper channel , i.e his office forwards his application,,, so the people in ur office would know ur searching for a job, as only the application forwarded by your office would be treated as valid,,, and your admn officer would need to submit ACR reports of last 5 yrs (some cases i think ) , + a clearance report from vigilance officer ,,, in some cases ..... and in a year only u can apply for some 3-4 times... . So if your superior comes to know about this, it can be a problem for u depending on ur superior.
Ever wondered how easily we can hop jobs in private,.....
From India, Pune
Hai
These set of rules were made so that every project or file goes error free. But in the passing of time these have become barriers and they have lost their value.
Next the Govt people are not worried about their ACRs, because generally at the fag end of your ACR time if the employee satisfy his boss he tends to get a better appraisal.
Their pay hike is very meagre. Say if a Lower division clerk is promoted after 10-12 years to HDC then his Basic salary starts somewhere 4500 then his final salary is somewhat 7000-8000. His annual hike is around 300-500. (including DA hike, the general increment is to the tune of 75-125 per year).
This actually is the reason behind corruption.
I have seen good officers who are very effective. But we too are responsible for their corruption. We do not follow the rules, but hide them with money.
From India, Tiruppur
These set of rules were made so that every project or file goes error free. But in the passing of time these have become barriers and they have lost their value.
Next the Govt people are not worried about their ACRs, because generally at the fag end of your ACR time if the employee satisfy his boss he tends to get a better appraisal.
Their pay hike is very meagre. Say if a Lower division clerk is promoted after 10-12 years to HDC then his Basic salary starts somewhere 4500 then his final salary is somewhat 7000-8000. His annual hike is around 300-500. (including DA hike, the general increment is to the tune of 75-125 per year).
This actually is the reason behind corruption.
I have seen good officers who are very effective. But we too are responsible for their corruption. We do not follow the rules, but hide them with money.
From India, Tiruppur
Yes Mr.Bagema,
We ourselves are to some extent helping in corruption ,,
it is we who think to pay 100 rs more and get licence without hurdles.
it is we who bribe anywhere and bypass govt rules...
More inputs members, im HAPPY SEEING UR INTEREST.... :) :) :) :) :P :P :P
From India, Pune
We ourselves are to some extent helping in corruption ,,
it is we who think to pay 100 rs more and get licence without hurdles.
it is we who bribe anywhere and bypass govt rules...
More inputs members, im HAPPY SEEING UR INTEREST.... :) :) :) :) :P :P :P
From India, Pune
Yaah Ravi Good knowledge about Govt Dapartments, Generallly it is difficult to apply for ather jobs. Regards, Tikam
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
I NEED PARTICIPATION FROM MORE CITE HR MEMBERS,,, come on guys, give me a reply,..... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
There was a time when govt jobs meant security, a life long pension after retirement etc. Times have changed and so have necessities. Today a govt job is looked down upon. With the emergence of new economy, pay scales in pvt sector have shot thru the roof and any one and everyone worth their salt (read education) is looking for opportunities in the private sector leading to shortage of availability of human resources in the govt sector. This has subsequently lead to existing staff being overloaded / overburdened with more work than they can handle at the same meagre pay leading to a lax in attitude, breeding of corruption and acceptance of bribe to keep their home fires burning.
It is not that these people dont want to work and not inept at their work. Its just the money, the environment, the treatment meted out to them by the govt and the public that has resulted in them becoming desultory, lazy, cold etc.
The general public treats them like their pvt servants, cuz of the term public servant.
This situation is not beyond repair. This can be overturned and we can make the govt employees perform at par with the pvt. sector employees provided the necessary initiative is taken and a revamp in the old age work methods is undertaken.
- Richa
From India, Pune
It is not that these people dont want to work and not inept at their work. Its just the money, the environment, the treatment meted out to them by the govt and the public that has resulted in them becoming desultory, lazy, cold etc.
The general public treats them like their pvt servants, cuz of the term public servant.
This situation is not beyond repair. This can be overturned and we can make the govt employees perform at par with the pvt. sector employees provided the necessary initiative is taken and a revamp in the old age work methods is undertaken.
- Richa
From India, Pune
Hi friends,
this seems to be the only agenda to be discussed thoroughly.In my view , due to lack of professionalism and more departmentalisation in Govt.sect there is such BAD behaviour both inter and intra relationship.
Moreover the flow of direction is from top to bottom without taking into confidence of the worker at the lower end.To cite , a decission is taken at top level to procure a high end mechine but to mantain that the workers are low educated or sometimes illeterate.
The above is apart from the reasons for corruption.
Delay in Promotion to higher grades is a factor for laziness
No performance related incentives
No orientation in work culture
Too many rules and regulations(some are even centuries old)
Lack of transperancy in all processes
this seems to be the only agenda to be discussed thoroughly.In my view , due to lack of professionalism and more departmentalisation in Govt.sect there is such BAD behaviour both inter and intra relationship.
Moreover the flow of direction is from top to bottom without taking into confidence of the worker at the lower end.To cite , a decission is taken at top level to procure a high end mechine but to mantain that the workers are low educated or sometimes illeterate.
The above is apart from the reasons for corruption.
Delay in Promotion to higher grades is a factor for laziness
No performance related incentives
No orientation in work culture
Too many rules and regulations(some are even centuries old)
Lack of transperancy in all processes
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