Hello.
I went through this and I was impressed with the spirit with which it is done. I liked the post of Seema on Maslow Performance appraisal. It was ok, but the reply could be more comprehensive.
The current topic is on Dismissal, discharge, termination, etc. Let me wait for the correct answer and your verdict! Can I correct if there is a mistake? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice discussion forum with great spirit. Keep going.
Siva
From India, Chennai
379I went through this and I was impressed with the spirit with which it is done. I liked the post of Seema on Maslow Performance appraisal. It was ok, but the reply could be more comprehensive.
The current topic is on Dismissal, discharge, termination, etc. Let me wait for the correct answer and your verdict! Can I correct if there is a mistake? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice discussion forum with great spirit. Keep going.
Siva
From India, Chennai
Hi,
Here is my explanation. Its just my perception. please correct me if anything goes wrong.
Dismissal – It’s a punishment to the employee received in consideration of his/her mis conduct or behaviour. Like if a person caught while misusing office confidential matters or when his/her deeds negatively effect the organization reputation he/she should be dismissed from his/her services. It’s the punishment that a person receives for his illegal deeds. I made a mistake in my previous post by mentioning it as a temporary removal. Here I would like to correct it as dismissal is a permanent removal.
Eg:
Unauthorized divulgation of any information regarding operation of the Company to any organization or persons including clients
Misbehavior with colleagues, superior officers or clients and so on….
Discharge : The word itself gives the meaning of releasing from duty or obligation. There are plenty of meanings for the same word. But when we compared it to our topic it’s nothing but officially relieving a person from his/her duties.
For Ex: Mr. Amith was joined in XYZ co. in the year 2005 by signing two years bond. Now he got an opportunity to work with some ABC co., which is more reputed than XYZ.. So officially he has the right to leave the company as per their commitment by serving notice period. And he can discharge from his duties as per their mutual agreement.
Termination: As earlier mentioned this is done during the Training / Probation Period of any employee. That means we have to specify the Appointment order that we may terminate their services if the performance of the employee is not satisfied. There is a similarity in between the terms Termination & Dismissal. When an employer is not satisfied with the performance of the employee he has the right to terminate his/her employment without giving prior notice. But whereas it has to be mentioned in the appointment or offer letter.
For example: A company hired a person called Arjun as a Trainee Recruiter & after completing the training period he/she may be placed on probabation. If they found Mr. Arjun is not fit for that position or if there is any other problems aroused because of arjun the company have the right to terminate means remove him from the services with or without notice period(depends on their agreement made in between the employer & employee)
Retrenchment: Its nothing but reducing the man power. Means reduction of expenditure by reducing the employee turnover.
Eg: If a company running in loss or if they contemplated that particular department is not running well and there is no use of existing, they will shut down the department and remove the staff in order to save the expenditure. Some times the company will pay them some compensation and sometimes not. It totally depends on which basis they are shutting down or removing the employees.
Regards
Sreeni :)
From Singapore, Singapore
Here is my explanation. Its just my perception. please correct me if anything goes wrong.
Dismissal – It’s a punishment to the employee received in consideration of his/her mis conduct or behaviour. Like if a person caught while misusing office confidential matters or when his/her deeds negatively effect the organization reputation he/she should be dismissed from his/her services. It’s the punishment that a person receives for his illegal deeds. I made a mistake in my previous post by mentioning it as a temporary removal. Here I would like to correct it as dismissal is a permanent removal.
Eg:
Unauthorized divulgation of any information regarding operation of the Company to any organization or persons including clients
Misbehavior with colleagues, superior officers or clients and so on….
Discharge : The word itself gives the meaning of releasing from duty or obligation. There are plenty of meanings for the same word. But when we compared it to our topic it’s nothing but officially relieving a person from his/her duties.
For Ex: Mr. Amith was joined in XYZ co. in the year 2005 by signing two years bond. Now he got an opportunity to work with some ABC co., which is more reputed than XYZ.. So officially he has the right to leave the company as per their commitment by serving notice period. And he can discharge from his duties as per their mutual agreement.
Termination: As earlier mentioned this is done during the Training / Probation Period of any employee. That means we have to specify the Appointment order that we may terminate their services if the performance of the employee is not satisfied. There is a similarity in between the terms Termination & Dismissal. When an employer is not satisfied with the performance of the employee he has the right to terminate his/her employment without giving prior notice. But whereas it has to be mentioned in the appointment or offer letter.
For example: A company hired a person called Arjun as a Trainee Recruiter & after completing the training period he/she may be placed on probabation. If they found Mr. Arjun is not fit for that position or if there is any other problems aroused because of arjun the company have the right to terminate means remove him from the services with or without notice period(depends on their agreement made in between the employer & employee)
Retrenchment: Its nothing but reducing the man power. Means reduction of expenditure by reducing the employee turnover.
Eg: If a company running in loss or if they contemplated that particular department is not running well and there is no use of existing, they will shut down the department and remove the staff in order to save the expenditure. Some times the company will pay them some compensation and sometimes not. It totally depends on which basis they are shutting down or removing the employees.
Regards
Sreeni :)
From Singapore, Singapore
Hello,
1. Termination
This refers to the end of an employee's duration with an employer. Depending on the case, the decision could be made by the employee, employer, or mutually agreed upon by both.
Termination, in other words, refers to the cessation of employment. It could be due to retirement, resignation, dismissal, discharge, or retrenchment.
There are two types of terminations:
A. Voluntary termination
Resignation and retirement due to age fall under this category.
B. Involuntary termination
Dismissal, discharge, forced resignation, retrenchment all fall under this category.
2. Dismissal
This refers to the employer's choice to let go of the employee for a reason. The reason in the case of dismissal is always for a fault or misconduct committed. In colloquial language, it is referred to as getting fired. There is stigma attached.
Dismissal is referred to as "Capital Punishment" in labor law parlance. The severance here takes place after conducting inquiries on the charges leveled.
3. Discharge
Discharge again is initiated at the instance of the employer. Probably, it has the origin for relieving the employee on medical grounds or on his inability to perform. Discharge is not a punitive action. It is generally considered that it has no stigma attached. But when we read Standing Orders, we always see in punishments "a person can be dismissed or discharged," making it punitive in nature. If we use the terminology in a letter saying "you are discharged as you were found guilty of the misconducts," it is equivalent to dismissal and punitive in nature.
If we say "you are discharged as we have examined your medical reports and found that you are no longer capable of performing the duties assigned to you," it does not carry a stigma.
There are instances when we issue a discharge simpliciter. Probationers' termination order falls into this category (Municipal Committee Sirsa Vs. Munshi Ram 2003 SC). There were also cases where employees were issued with discharge simpliciter and evidence rendered in the labor court. But we need to examine case to case basis.
Even though discharge started with no stigma basis, we still have two types in today's context. One punitive action which has stigma attached and instead of using the word dismissal, the word discharge is used.
The other where no stigma is attached.
4. Retrenchment
Reduction in employee's strength.
Siva
From India, Chennai
1. Termination
This refers to the end of an employee's duration with an employer. Depending on the case, the decision could be made by the employee, employer, or mutually agreed upon by both.
Termination, in other words, refers to the cessation of employment. It could be due to retirement, resignation, dismissal, discharge, or retrenchment.
There are two types of terminations:
A. Voluntary termination
Resignation and retirement due to age fall under this category.
B. Involuntary termination
Dismissal, discharge, forced resignation, retrenchment all fall under this category.
2. Dismissal
This refers to the employer's choice to let go of the employee for a reason. The reason in the case of dismissal is always for a fault or misconduct committed. In colloquial language, it is referred to as getting fired. There is stigma attached.
Dismissal is referred to as "Capital Punishment" in labor law parlance. The severance here takes place after conducting inquiries on the charges leveled.
3. Discharge
Discharge again is initiated at the instance of the employer. Probably, it has the origin for relieving the employee on medical grounds or on his inability to perform. Discharge is not a punitive action. It is generally considered that it has no stigma attached. But when we read Standing Orders, we always see in punishments "a person can be dismissed or discharged," making it punitive in nature. If we use the terminology in a letter saying "you are discharged as you were found guilty of the misconducts," it is equivalent to dismissal and punitive in nature.
If we say "you are discharged as we have examined your medical reports and found that you are no longer capable of performing the duties assigned to you," it does not carry a stigma.
There are instances when we issue a discharge simpliciter. Probationers' termination order falls into this category (Municipal Committee Sirsa Vs. Munshi Ram 2003 SC). There were also cases where employees were issued with discharge simpliciter and evidence rendered in the labor court. But we need to examine case to case basis.
Even though discharge started with no stigma basis, we still have two types in today's context. One punitive action which has stigma attached and instead of using the word dismissal, the word discharge is used.
The other where no stigma is attached.
4. Retrenchment
Reduction in employee's strength.
Siva
From India, Chennai
Dear Mr. Sreenu,
As mentioned by Preet, your answer in your first post is correct and short. However, in the second post, you have covered everything in brief, which is very accurate and understandable by everyone. Congratulations, Mr. Sreenu! You are the winner. Please put up the question at the earliest.
Thanks and wish you all the best.
Thiru
From Germany, Herzogenaurach
As mentioned by Preet, your answer in your first post is correct and short. However, in the second post, you have covered everything in brief, which is very accurate and understandable by everyone. Congratulations, Mr. Sreenu! You are the winner. Please put up the question at the earliest.
Thanks and wish you all the best.
Thiru
From Germany, Herzogenaurach
Dear Thiru,
I think the answer by Dipika is closer and correct. Sreeni's definitions are not correct. You must look at this closely again and pass your judgment.
I reproduce Dipika's answer. You should also refer to my response to this:
Siva
From India, Chennai
I think the answer by Dipika is closer and correct. Sreeni's definitions are not correct. You must look at this closely again and pass your judgment.
I reproduce Dipika's answer. You should also refer to my response to this:
Siva
From India, Chennai
Hi Sreeni, congratulations. As confirmed by Thiru, you are the winner. However, I agree with Mr. Siva's comments that Deepika's answer is the most appropriate. Nevertheless, Thiru is the person who has to decide on the winner.
Preet
From India, Bangalore
Preet
From India, Bangalore
Dear Preet,
I appreciate the enthusiasm. Good going! But just look at the correctness. As posted by me, Sreeni's answer is not correct, and Deepika's is closer to the right reply. In fact, hers is the right answer except for the definition of Discharge. There are also instances where discharge takes place by mutual consent.
Siva
From India, Chennai
I appreciate the enthusiasm. Good going! But just look at the correctness. As posted by me, Sreeni's answer is not correct, and Deepika's is closer to the right reply. In fact, hers is the right answer except for the definition of Discharge. There are also instances where discharge takes place by mutual consent.
Siva
From India, Chennai
Dear Siva, As for as this post is concerned the appropriate answer given by Mr.Sreenu is correct. Ms.Deepika may also be correct but total acceptance is with Sreenu only. Thanks with Regards, Thiru
From Germany, Herzogenaurach
From Germany, Herzogenaurach
Hi Thiru,
I reviewed both the answers of Mr. Sreeni again. The first one is wrong as he swapped the answer with other terminology. The second answer seems to be correct, but the usage of explanation is also a little bit incorrect.
For example, Sreeni says the termination is only during training or probation. If you know, termination can be done for a confirmed employee as well. He mentioned that termination can be due to poor performance. That may be one reason, and an employee can also be terminated without assigning any reason.
By considering all these aspects, even though Deepika didn't provide any examples, the wording used by her is clearer and serves the purpose.
In my opinion, as Mr. Siva said, Deepika should be the winner.
Preet
From India, Bangalore
I reviewed both the answers of Mr. Sreeni again. The first one is wrong as he swapped the answer with other terminology. The second answer seems to be correct, but the usage of explanation is also a little bit incorrect.
For example, Sreeni says the termination is only during training or probation. If you know, termination can be done for a confirmed employee as well. He mentioned that termination can be due to poor performance. That may be one reason, and an employee can also be terminated without assigning any reason.
By considering all these aspects, even though Deepika didn't provide any examples, the wording used by her is clearer and serves the purpose.
In my opinion, as Mr. Siva said, Deepika should be the winner.
Preet
From India, Bangalore
Hi,
I just need your confirmation on who is the winner so that the person can proceed further.
If you think that Deepika is the winner, let her have a chance to post the question. Why waste our time by simply having discussions? Whoever posts the question, our bottom line is to gather information. It's not about who wins the battle; it's about obtaining the right insights from various HR professionals.
Please proceed accordingly.
Regards,
Sreeni
From Singapore, Singapore
I just need your confirmation on who is the winner so that the person can proceed further.
If you think that Deepika is the winner, let her have a chance to post the question. Why waste our time by simply having discussions? Whoever posts the question, our bottom line is to gather information. It's not about who wins the battle; it's about obtaining the right insights from various HR professionals.
Please proceed accordingly.
Regards,
Sreeni
From Singapore, Singapore
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