Every year, we receive a mail and a visit from an officer of the Statistical Department. They provide us with some forms to fill out and also request the company's balance sheet. We provide them with the necessary information and also have to provide them with a certain amount of money. While there is no issue with this process, I am curious to know if it is mandatory to provide information such as a balance sheet to the Statistical Department. What authority do they have, and what are the consequences if we do not cooperate with them?
From India, Aurangabad
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From India, Aurangabad
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Dear HBJ,
The submission of information to the statistical department is an activity that repeats every year. Could you please find out which ministry this department is a part of? Is it under the union government or the state government? The individuals working in the department are best suited to provide information on what happens to the data that is submitted. Do they conduct research on the industry segment to which your company belongs?
Looking at the bigger picture, the Department of Statistics must be collating the information you provide, which is likely valuable to the economic research cell of either the Ministry of Industry or the Ministry of Commerce. Accurate data is essential for policy-making. If business owners start withholding information, how will policymakers formulate policies concerning imports, exports, domestic consumption, taxes, and other related matters? Let us not deprive them of this vital information.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8032The submission of information to the statistical department is an activity that repeats every year. Could you please find out which ministry this department is a part of? Is it under the union government or the state government? The individuals working in the department are best suited to provide information on what happens to the data that is submitted. Do they conduct research on the industry segment to which your company belongs?
Looking at the bigger picture, the Department of Statistics must be collating the information you provide, which is likely valuable to the economic research cell of either the Ministry of Industry or the Ministry of Commerce. Accurate data is essential for policy-making. If business owners start withholding information, how will policymakers formulate policies concerning imports, exports, domestic consumption, taxes, and other related matters? Let us not deprive them of this vital information.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Dineshji, thank you for the reply. This is the NSO department; I believe it must be under the Central Government. I do agree with your point, and we will definitely provide the required information as we always do.
However, my question is whether this is compulsory and what authority the NSO officer has. Many times, government employees behave in an intimidating way with employees and "demand" information rather than request it, as if they will penalize if the information is not provided properly or in time. They also always expect something in return.
We already provide employee details to various departments such as labor, employment exchange, etc., from time to time. This information is also available online with the PF department, and the balance sheet is accessible through MCA. I fail to see why the statistical department needs to receive this information from each industry in written forms.
From India, Aurangabad
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However, my question is whether this is compulsory and what authority the NSO officer has. Many times, government employees behave in an intimidating way with employees and "demand" information rather than request it, as if they will penalize if the information is not provided properly or in time. They also always expect something in return.
We already provide employee details to various departments such as labor, employment exchange, etc., from time to time. This information is also available online with the PF department, and the balance sheet is accessible through MCA. I fail to see why the statistical department needs to receive this information from each industry in written forms.
From India, Aurangabad
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Dear HBJ,
You have written, "Many times government employees behave in an intimidating way with employees." However, this is happening in most government departments, whether from central or state government. Therefore, it is nothing new if employees of NSO demand the information.
Furthermore, you have written, "We already provide details of employees to various departments like labor, employment exchange, etc., from time to time. This is available online with the PF department also. The balance sheet is available with MCA. I do not see why the statistical department needs to get this from each industry in written forms."
Yes, what you say is correct. The information should be submitted only once, and the various agencies can derive the information from that source. Nevertheless, it requires the integration of all government departments vertically as well as horizontally. This has never happened earlier and is unlikely to happen in the future too. Government ministries or departments work in silos. They do not have any vision beyond their department.
I had a chance to work in an MNC that operated in 220 countries! Despite the enormity of their operations, the work went on smoothly. Due to automation, most of the work happened on its own, and there were no data entry operators. They had made a tremendous investment in developing their own IT systems.
We need leadership that has a vision and takes a holistic view. In our country, we have not had a PM who has worked in an MNC. Though Shri Rajiv Gandhi worked as an employee, he was a pilot, and that too in a government service like Air India. With his background in a bureaucratic organization, the bureaucracy continued during his regime as well.
For the method of work that you are expecting, we need visionary leadership that launches administrative reforms vigorously. But then, which political leadership will do that? They always want servile or subservient officers, famously called "babus." What you are witnessing is "babugiri" that we inherited from the British. No political leader worth their salt has the acumen to shed the bureaucracy. Therefore, let us accept it without grumbling!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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You have written, "Many times government employees behave in an intimidating way with employees." However, this is happening in most government departments, whether from central or state government. Therefore, it is nothing new if employees of NSO demand the information.
Furthermore, you have written, "We already provide details of employees to various departments like labor, employment exchange, etc., from time to time. This is available online with the PF department also. The balance sheet is available with MCA. I do not see why the statistical department needs to get this from each industry in written forms."
Yes, what you say is correct. The information should be submitted only once, and the various agencies can derive the information from that source. Nevertheless, it requires the integration of all government departments vertically as well as horizontally. This has never happened earlier and is unlikely to happen in the future too. Government ministries or departments work in silos. They do not have any vision beyond their department.
I had a chance to work in an MNC that operated in 220 countries! Despite the enormity of their operations, the work went on smoothly. Due to automation, most of the work happened on its own, and there were no data entry operators. They had made a tremendous investment in developing their own IT systems.
We need leadership that has a vision and takes a holistic view. In our country, we have not had a PM who has worked in an MNC. Though Shri Rajiv Gandhi worked as an employee, he was a pilot, and that too in a government service like Air India. With his background in a bureaucratic organization, the bureaucracy continued during his regime as well.
For the method of work that you are expecting, we need visionary leadership that launches administrative reforms vigorously. But then, which political leadership will do that? They always want servile or subservient officers, famously called "babus." What you are witnessing is "babugiri" that we inherited from the British. No political leader worth their salt has the acumen to shed the bureaucracy. Therefore, let us accept it without grumbling!
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Dear HBJ,
The Annual Survey of Industries (ASI) is conducted by the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation under the Collection of Statistics Act, 2008 through the State Statistical Departments. As per the Act, it is obligatory on your part to furnish the return in the prescribed format mentioned in the notice issued under Section 5 of the Act. Failure to do so could result in a fine ranging from Rs. 5,000 to Rs. 10,000.
Thank you.
From India, Salem
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The Annual Survey of Industries (ASI) is conducted by the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation under the Collection of Statistics Act, 2008 through the State Statistical Departments. As per the Act, it is obligatory on your part to furnish the return in the prescribed format mentioned in the notice issued under Section 5 of the Act. Failure to do so could result in a fine ranging from Rs. 5,000 to Rs. 10,000.
Thank you.
From India, Salem
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Dineshji, I agree. It's not possible to change the bureaucracy and corruption that is now in our genes. We have to accept it without grumbling, as you write, rather than get frustrated.
Umakanthanji, thank you for the information; this is what I wanted to know. Yes, we will provide the information needed as we do every year. I only wish Government babus had some basic decency and training on how to interact with people. Guess that's too much to ask.
From India, Aurangabad
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Umakanthanji, thank you for the information; this is what I wanted to know. Yes, we will provide the information needed as we do every year. I only wish Government babus had some basic decency and training on how to interact with people. Guess that's too much to ask.
From India, Aurangabad
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As Umakanthan ji has correctly replied, this is a statutory requirement, and you are obliged to provide it.
As for providing the balance sheet, the Balance Sheet of a company (both private and public) as well as for LLP is a public document and can be seen by anyone from the MCA website. So there is no secret you are sharing by providing them with the balance sheet.
Indian jurisprudence provides that in the case of an organization with limited liability, the person doing business with the organization is doing so at his own risk and liability. Therefore, he should have access to your Annual Accounts to figure out whether you are a safe customer/vendor. Therefore, anyone who is doing business with you can demand a copy of your annual accounts.
From India, Mumbai
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As for providing the balance sheet, the Balance Sheet of a company (both private and public) as well as for LLP is a public document and can be seen by anyone from the MCA website. So there is no secret you are sharing by providing them with the balance sheet.
Indian jurisprudence provides that in the case of an organization with limited liability, the person doing business with the organization is doing so at his own risk and liability. Therefore, he should have access to your Annual Accounts to figure out whether you are a safe customer/vendor. Therefore, anyone who is doing business with you can demand a copy of your annual accounts.
From India, Mumbai
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Hello Saswata. I understand now that it is a statutory requirement, and we always give this information. I just wanted to be sure because of the attitude of the person demanding the same, as I had written above. Thanks for your input.
From India, Aurangabad
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From India, Aurangabad
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Actually, many companies do ignore them because they have very few rights. I had a client who said he would happily pay the ₹10,000 penalty rather than waste time giving them the data.
But coming back to the original question, I have 2 points to make:
1. Balance Sheet (I guess you mean published annual accounts) is a public document, so you may as well give them.
2. You need to read the act and check what documents they can actually ask for (I have read it long, long back so I don't remember). If the data they are asking for is not in the act, you can actually refuse to give it.
From India, Mumbai
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But coming back to the original question, I have 2 points to make:
1. Balance Sheet (I guess you mean published annual accounts) is a public document, so you may as well give them.
2. You need to read the act and check what documents they can actually ask for (I have read it long, long back so I don't remember). If the data they are asking for is not in the act, you can actually refuse to give it.
From India, Mumbai
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Learned Shri Umakantan has placed things in the true perspective. Maybe Indian bureaucracy may be deficient in professionalism. But are the managers in the private sector any different, considering that the querist himself concedes that "We give them the required information and also have to give them some amount"!
From India, Kochi
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From India, Kochi
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Hi Vinayak,
The reply given by the learned colleague Mr. Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate, and limited to the scope of your inquiry. I appreciate it.
In my humble view, there is a lot to learn from his style of reply. One should avoid giving unsolicited views on things not sought by the querist and also try to score some brownie points by showing off the image of being knowledgeable on each and every subject of the query when one is not.
Another point, if you provide information as statutorily required, why should you pay any money to the visiting officer? Just think.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR and Employee Relations Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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The reply given by the learned colleague Mr. Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate, and limited to the scope of your inquiry. I appreciate it.
In my humble view, there is a lot to learn from his style of reply. One should avoid giving unsolicited views on things not sought by the querist and also try to score some brownie points by showing off the image of being knowledgeable on each and every subject of the query when one is not.
Another point, if you provide information as statutorily required, why should you pay any money to the visiting officer? Just think.
Regards,
Vinayak Nagarkar
HR and Employee Relations Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Mr. Banerjee, Mr. Venu, Mr. Nagarkar,
Thank you all for taking time to reply. It is interesting to know the views of different people on an issue and how everyone would maybe tackle the same thing differently. I appreciate your inputs.
Vinayakji, all or definitely most officers expect to be given something; it is an unwritten rule. One cannot escape that if one wants to run a small industry peacefully. This is not to do anything illegal but just to avoid any deliberate harassment. In our 40 years of running an industry, we have learned that one cannot escape from this for getting work done in any government department. There are minimum "fixed charges" that one must consider; otherwise, run around the offices and officers. I think it's better not to get into that debate. This is nothing new or no secret.
From India, Aurangabad
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Thank you all for taking time to reply. It is interesting to know the views of different people on an issue and how everyone would maybe tackle the same thing differently. I appreciate your inputs.
Vinayakji, all or definitely most officers expect to be given something; it is an unwritten rule. One cannot escape that if one wants to run a small industry peacefully. This is not to do anything illegal but just to avoid any deliberate harassment. In our 40 years of running an industry, we have learned that one cannot escape from this for getting work done in any government department. There are minimum "fixed charges" that one must consider; otherwise, run around the offices and officers. I think it's better not to get into that debate. This is nothing new or no secret.
From India, Aurangabad
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Information which organizations are to give is always laid down. Please provide the information in the prescribed form. Have a checklist of forms and dates by which information is to be submitted and the legal authority for giving the information. There is no need to give anything beyond that. The babu may want extra things, but politely sidestep the matter and just provide information as per the form. Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no to any illegal demand unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done. NSO is a statistical organization that collects statistics - that is all. I have been dealing with various babus during my employment period, and apart from a cup of tea, nothing extra was ever given. But I knew what return is to be filed and by which date. So have your return information, dates, schedules ready and do things meticulously and in time.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Rightly said by Mr Nagarkar “The reply given by Mr Umakanhan is precise, to the point, accurate and limited to the scope of your enquiry”, as usual he does for every post.
I would like to explain my view. I am working in an MNC which built and maintain water treatment plants. We have taken Factory Licence for some plants. As per discussion with the ASI Inspector “when we take Factory Licence our file goes to Statistics Dept. as well. Through ASI Return they collect various data”.
Rightly said by Mr Dinesh “the data is useful for “Economical Research” and for making policies.
Dear Mr HBJ,
Through the Balance Sheet, the Inspector trace out what kind of major exp. are claimed in the P/L for the unit. Moreover, various factors related to manpower are also checked and filled in the Return (like, No. of personnel deployed (men-women), No. of mandays worked and mandays paid, PF-ESI, Bonus etc.).
I slightly differ from Mr Natharao. Yes it is good practice to maintain information in prescribed format. But following all labour laws, employment laws and statutory compliance is very difficult.
But as per my opinion, it is always not possible to follow “Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done".
Yes, we can deny for illegal demand, if our data is absolutely correct. But in case we did any mistake (which is obvious in this day to day changing environment) and the Inspector deny to co-operate then it will be more difficult. Moreover in case of ASI Return Senior Inspector/s visit the site/office not any “Babu”. We should practically take up the issue to accomplish the job as a whole.
I use to arrange the meeting at site, collect company balance sheet and maintain contractual Labour data. On basis of the data Return is prepared and the Inspector give us acknowledged copy.
It is nice to read views of senior members on this unique issue.
From India, Delhi
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I would like to explain my view. I am working in an MNC which built and maintain water treatment plants. We have taken Factory Licence for some plants. As per discussion with the ASI Inspector “when we take Factory Licence our file goes to Statistics Dept. as well. Through ASI Return they collect various data”.
Rightly said by Mr Dinesh “the data is useful for “Economical Research” and for making policies.
Dear Mr HBJ,
Through the Balance Sheet, the Inspector trace out what kind of major exp. are claimed in the P/L for the unit. Moreover, various factors related to manpower are also checked and filled in the Return (like, No. of personnel deployed (men-women), No. of mandays worked and mandays paid, PF-ESI, Bonus etc.).
I slightly differ from Mr Natharao. Yes it is good practice to maintain information in prescribed format. But following all labour laws, employment laws and statutory compliance is very difficult.
But as per my opinion, it is always not possible to follow “Cannot understand why you are scared of saying no any illegal demand, unless the information is wrong or some mistake is being done".
Yes, we can deny for illegal demand, if our data is absolutely correct. But in case we did any mistake (which is obvious in this day to day changing environment) and the Inspector deny to co-operate then it will be more difficult. Moreover in case of ASI Return Senior Inspector/s visit the site/office not any “Babu”. We should practically take up the issue to accomplish the job as a whole.
I use to arrange the meeting at site, collect company balance sheet and maintain contractual Labour data. On basis of the data Return is prepared and the Inspector give us acknowledged copy.
It is nice to read views of senior members on this unique issue.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mr. Pan Singh,
With regard to your comment "I slightly differ from Mr. Natharao," I want to clarify. The idea of stressing on complete records is to set high standards. In real life, it may not be 100% practical to be right all the time. However, if we allow compromises, we will fail to complete compliances on time. Most big units have third-party auditing for compliances, ensuring the unit is compliant to the best extent possible.
Inspectors need to be treated respectfully and given full cooperation to ensure the unit is not dragged into legal issues. However, this does not mean engaging in unhealthy practices. The best approach is to be compliant and reduce any element of friction with Babus (Babus are referred to in a general manner).
I hope this clarifies the situation.
From India, Pune
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With regard to your comment "I slightly differ from Mr. Natharao," I want to clarify. The idea of stressing on complete records is to set high standards. In real life, it may not be 100% practical to be right all the time. However, if we allow compromises, we will fail to complete compliances on time. Most big units have third-party auditing for compliances, ensuring the unit is compliant to the best extent possible.
Inspectors need to be treated respectfully and given full cooperation to ensure the unit is not dragged into legal issues. However, this does not mean engaging in unhealthy practices. The best approach is to be compliant and reduce any element of friction with Babus (Babus are referred to in a general manner).
I hope this clarifies the situation.
From India, Pune
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Dear Mr. Pan Singh and Mr. Nathrao,
Thanks for the replies.
The truth is that nothing works without greasing palms. For the statistical department, maybe one may even get away with not giving anything, but there are other departments where a small company cannot escape. We have had demands from the PF department without fulfilling which online PF claims after retirement are held up due to small errors in the paperwork or some technical reason. You may say that if there are errors, then they have the right to hold the payment. But if the error was serious, then after fulfilling the demands, how does the error get resolved. Government babus are supposed to help the people and not make them run around the offices which may be 30-40 kms away from small industrial towns. The person gets frustrated and gives in. This is not an isolated incident but a well-set practice. If one is doing something illegal, then the demand is much more, not just a small amount, but that's a different thing. Mostly, even for getting their own money, the employees have to give something to PF.
I think it would be best to leave this debate as it is, as every company may have a different take on this. Large MNCs may be able to maintain perfect paperwork as they have the resources, but small companies struggle, and instead of getting the correct advice from the department, their demands have to be fulfilled. This is the harsh reality in any department.
From India, Aurangabad
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Thanks for the replies.
The truth is that nothing works without greasing palms. For the statistical department, maybe one may even get away with not giving anything, but there are other departments where a small company cannot escape. We have had demands from the PF department without fulfilling which online PF claims after retirement are held up due to small errors in the paperwork or some technical reason. You may say that if there are errors, then they have the right to hold the payment. But if the error was serious, then after fulfilling the demands, how does the error get resolved. Government babus are supposed to help the people and not make them run around the offices which may be 30-40 kms away from small industrial towns. The person gets frustrated and gives in. This is not an isolated incident but a well-set practice. If one is doing something illegal, then the demand is much more, not just a small amount, but that's a different thing. Mostly, even for getting their own money, the employees have to give something to PF.
I think it would be best to leave this debate as it is, as every company may have a different take on this. Large MNCs may be able to maintain perfect paperwork as they have the resources, but small companies struggle, and instead of getting the correct advice from the department, their demands have to be fulfilled. This is the harsh reality in any department.
From India, Aurangabad
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Understanding Off Balance Sheet Accounting[1][1 ].2003 - Wiley.pdf
Understanding balance sheet.ppt