Dear All,
My daughter completed her CA on the first attempt in November 2013 and opted to go for IIM. Unfortunately, she was not able to secure a seat in the college of her choice, so she decided not to pursue an MBA. She accepted that she had not taken it seriously. Then she started looking for a job in Pune and Mumbai but was not able to pass interviews for 3-4 companies. She lost interest in attending interviews and nowadays is not even applying for any openings.
Now she has enrolled for CFA and is currently preparing for the November exam. Throughout her educational career, she was always at the top rank. She passed her SSC, HSC, and B.COM with distinction. I have tried my best to convince her, but all in vain. Can anyone suggest a reputable institute where she can learn interview techniques and develop her personality? There are many institutes I can see online, but I am looking for the best one in Pune or Mumbai.
I would appreciate it if any member from a finance background could help her by suggesting openings available in their company. During her articleship, she was considered the best among their group. She completed her articleship at one of the top firms in Pune.
Best regards,
VIJAY
From United Arab Emirates, Ras Al Khaimah
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12My daughter completed her CA on the first attempt in November 2013 and opted to go for IIM. Unfortunately, she was not able to secure a seat in the college of her choice, so she decided not to pursue an MBA. She accepted that she had not taken it seriously. Then she started looking for a job in Pune and Mumbai but was not able to pass interviews for 3-4 companies. She lost interest in attending interviews and nowadays is not even applying for any openings.
Now she has enrolled for CFA and is currently preparing for the November exam. Throughout her educational career, she was always at the top rank. She passed her SSC, HSC, and B.COM with distinction. I have tried my best to convince her, but all in vain. Can anyone suggest a reputable institute where she can learn interview techniques and develop her personality? There are many institutes I can see online, but I am looking for the best one in Pune or Mumbai.
I would appreciate it if any member from a finance background could help her by suggesting openings available in their company. During her articleship, she was considered the best among their group. She completed her articleship at one of the top firms in Pune.
Best regards,
VIJAY
From United Arab Emirates, Ras Al Khaimah
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Dear Mr. Vijay,
After reviewing the entire case of your daughter, I can infer that what she needs is counseling. Therefore, I recommend that you seek help from a professional counselor. Finance professionals may not be adept at career counseling. If you were from Bangalore, I would have recommended a very good counselor who could have enhanced her self-esteem.
Secondly, you have not mentioned why your daughter could not succeed in the job interview even though she had been a top ranker throughout her education.
General comments: The story of the poster's daughter shows that bookish knowledge does not build one's personality. This issue partially stems from our education system. Our education system tends to make students focus solely on examinations, neglecting other aspects. Most written examinations last for three hours, so students mainly learn to manage those 180 minutes of their lives. However, what our education system lacks is the practical application of knowledge. When students are unsure where, when, and how to apply their knowledge, they develop a fear of failure. Students' minds should not be treated as mere receptacles of knowledge. Our education system has yet to realize this. In contrast, Western countries emphasize using others' knowledge to thrive.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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After reviewing the entire case of your daughter, I can infer that what she needs is counseling. Therefore, I recommend that you seek help from a professional counselor. Finance professionals may not be adept at career counseling. If you were from Bangalore, I would have recommended a very good counselor who could have enhanced her self-esteem.
Secondly, you have not mentioned why your daughter could not succeed in the job interview even though she had been a top ranker throughout her education.
General comments: The story of the poster's daughter shows that bookish knowledge does not build one's personality. This issue partially stems from our education system. Our education system tends to make students focus solely on examinations, neglecting other aspects. Most written examinations last for three hours, so students mainly learn to manage those 180 minutes of their lives. However, what our education system lacks is the practical application of knowledge. When students are unsure where, when, and how to apply their knowledge, they develop a fear of failure. Students' minds should not be treated as mere receptacles of knowledge. Our education system has yet to realize this. In contrast, Western countries emphasize using others' knowledge to thrive.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Hello Vijay,
I join other members in sharing your concern about your daughter.
Her academic background and the current situation, as you described, don't seem to align in a few aspects. There are a few points that need clarity.
1] What are her non-academic interests/hobbies? Please mention regarding 'has she been a bookworm while studying', 'did she ever have any friends in school/college as well as outside', 'did she participate in any extra-curricular activities at school/college', etc.
2] Prima facie, she seems to have a semblance of over-confidence thus far—not very uncommon in top-scoring students. This is corroborated by what you mentioned—"she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for an MBA" AND "She accepted that she has not taken it seriously".
Quite often, such top-notch students take things for granted in whatever they do until they get hit by reality that the efforts HAVE TO MATCH the goals, irrespective of past achievements.
3] Did you have a clear and open discussion with her? Is her interest towards a job or academics? I clearly see a sign [I MAY be wrong, but THINK I am right] of family pressure to get into a job rather than pursuing further studies. You mentioned she is preparing for CFA Exams in November; then what does this line of yours "I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain" mean? Convince for/against WHAT?
4] What's the basis on which you conclude that she HAS THE NEED TO develop her personality? Frankly, many parents think they know their children's aspirations and interests the best—based on their views of life. And quite often, they realize that they were wrong after it's too late—that what's good for the goose MAY NOT necessarily be good for the gander.
The pity in the whole situation is that the parents SURELY and DEFINITELY have the interest of the child in mind—so the intent is not and never is suspect—only the failure to see that the goals and methods COULD be different.
And the other pitiable aspect in this is that NO child, unless there's been any past history of child abuse/disregard, likes to say 'NO' to his/her parents when he/she knows what's in their minds. Typically, they just 'keep shut', which actually leads to the whole issue taking different turns and possible WRONG diagnosis of the situation.
I am NOT saying this from theory—I have practical experiences of having handled such situations [some which I managed to avert/correct well in time and some I just had to watch when whole careers/lives were literally going for a toss].
Frankly, at this point of time, I DON'T see any need for any counseling or special courses. Please give your responses to the above queries.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I join other members in sharing your concern about your daughter.
Her academic background and the current situation, as you described, don't seem to align in a few aspects. There are a few points that need clarity.
1] What are her non-academic interests/hobbies? Please mention regarding 'has she been a bookworm while studying', 'did she ever have any friends in school/college as well as outside', 'did she participate in any extra-curricular activities at school/college', etc.
2] Prima facie, she seems to have a semblance of over-confidence thus far—not very uncommon in top-scoring students. This is corroborated by what you mentioned—"she was not able to secure the seat in the college of her choice so decided not to go for an MBA" AND "She accepted that she has not taken it seriously".
Quite often, such top-notch students take things for granted in whatever they do until they get hit by reality that the efforts HAVE TO MATCH the goals, irrespective of past achievements.
3] Did you have a clear and open discussion with her? Is her interest towards a job or academics? I clearly see a sign [I MAY be wrong, but THINK I am right] of family pressure to get into a job rather than pursuing further studies. You mentioned she is preparing for CFA Exams in November; then what does this line of yours "I have tried my best to convince her but all in vain" mean? Convince for/against WHAT?
4] What's the basis on which you conclude that she HAS THE NEED TO develop her personality? Frankly, many parents think they know their children's aspirations and interests the best—based on their views of life. And quite often, they realize that they were wrong after it's too late—that what's good for the goose MAY NOT necessarily be good for the gander.
The pity in the whole situation is that the parents SURELY and DEFINITELY have the interest of the child in mind—so the intent is not and never is suspect—only the failure to see that the goals and methods COULD be different.
And the other pitiable aspect in this is that NO child, unless there's been any past history of child abuse/disregard, likes to say 'NO' to his/her parents when he/she knows what's in their minds. Typically, they just 'keep shut', which actually leads to the whole issue taking different turns and possible WRONG diagnosis of the situation.
I am NOT saying this from theory—I have practical experiences of having handled such situations [some which I managed to avert/correct well in time and some I just had to watch when whole careers/lives were literally going for a toss].
Frankly, at this point of time, I DON'T see any need for any counseling or special courses. Please give your responses to the above queries.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Students' brains are not grounds to dump knowledge. Our education system is yet to realize this. In contrast, Western countries teach how to use someone else's knowledge and prosper!
True words, Dineshji. Thanks for your post. Also, I thank all our august members for their concern on this vibrant topic.
From India, New Delhi
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True words, Dineshji. Thanks for your post. Also, I thank all our august members for their concern on this vibrant topic.
From India, New Delhi
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Dear Vijay,
Our learned members have given good suggestions and raised valid questions; please let me add a couple of questions before making a comment. Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful? In the West, most companies respond if asked. As I left India long ago, I do not know if organizations give such feedback. However, it's worth trying.
Has she tried in the company where she did her "articleship"? If not, why not?
If I am correct, 90% plus seats in IIMs are bagged by students with an engineering background, and thus the competition is very stiff. Kindly read and digest the info at [Engineers will continue to dominate IIM campuses | Business Standard News](http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/engineers-will-continue-to-dominate-iim-campuses-114011501262_1.html).
It's very easy to lose heart when faced with failure for top-ranked students. However, your daughter should not fall into the vicious cycle.
For the time being, let her concentrate on the CFA exam if that's what she prefers.
Like others have mentioned, in India, parents try to influence what children have to do and also keep stressing on becoming a TOPPER in the class. However, my experience in the West is to let children do what they want and not compare them with others and not expect them to become TOPPERS.
From United Kingdom
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Our learned members have given good suggestions and raised valid questions; please let me add a couple of questions before making a comment. Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful? In the West, most companies respond if asked. As I left India long ago, I do not know if organizations give such feedback. However, it's worth trying.
Has she tried in the company where she did her "articleship"? If not, why not?
If I am correct, 90% plus seats in IIMs are bagged by students with an engineering background, and thus the competition is very stiff. Kindly read and digest the info at [Engineers will continue to dominate IIM campuses | Business Standard News](http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/engineers-will-continue-to-dominate-iim-campuses-114011501262_1.html).
It's very easy to lose heart when faced with failure for top-ranked students. However, your daughter should not fall into the vicious cycle.
For the time being, let her concentrate on the CFA exam if that's what she prefers.
Like others have mentioned, in India, parents try to influence what children have to do and also keep stressing on becoming a TOPPER in the class. However, my experience in the West is to let children do what they want and not compare them with others and not expect them to become TOPPERS.
From United Kingdom
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Hello Simhan,
Regarding your comment "Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful?" -- forget about it. Most companies in India don't even provide meaningful feedback to those who refer candidates (including agencies), let alone the interviewees themselves. I emphasized "meaningful" because terms like "technically rejected" or "not selected" can be vague. Some companies do not consider the feelings of individuals; they use "rejected" as casually as they use "selected," despite other ways to communicate the same message without discouraging the candidate. It seems that not all battles can be won until companies acknowledge their responsibility to interviewees.
Regards, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Regarding your comment "Has your daughter asked for feedback from the companies as to why she was not successful?" -- forget about it. Most companies in India don't even provide meaningful feedback to those who refer candidates (including agencies), let alone the interviewees themselves. I emphasized "meaningful" because terms like "technically rejected" or "not selected" can be vague. Some companies do not consider the feelings of individuals; they use "rejected" as casually as they use "selected," despite other ways to communicate the same message without discouraging the candidate. It seems that not all battles can be won until companies acknowledge their responsibility to interviewees.
Regards, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear TS,
Our daughter is a family physician, and General Practices generally give feedback when asked. The same goes for some companies.
Dear Nathrao and TS,
You are both right. Until companies realize that even in a buyer's market, they owe some explanation to rejected candidates on how they could improve their chances of selection, things will not change. The candidates get frustrated.
From United Kingdom
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Our daughter is a family physician, and General Practices generally give feedback when asked. The same goes for some companies.
Dear Nathrao and TS,
You are both right. Until companies realize that even in a buyer's market, they owe some explanation to rejected candidates on how they could improve their chances of selection, things will not change. The candidates get frustrated.
From United Kingdom
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Hello Vijay,
Just to add to what I mentioned/suggested earlier.
Though I am NOT a Finance guy, by virtue of being in a profession where learning about the latest trends and disruptive sectors/fields that proliferate all over all the time—as a necessity and daily routine than as a hobby—I can say that CFA is not something that anyone can get through.
It's highly valued in top-notch companies—needless to say, it's also very tough to clear and is NOT for the average students.
Here's the link for your ready reference:
[CFA Program](http://www.cfainstitute.org/programs/cfaprogram/Pages/index.aspx)
In addition to the effort involved, the only other aspect that needs to be kept in mind would be the timeframes... it takes around 2 years to attain the CFA designation after one's name.
Though this may seem obtrusive, I would venture to add: when the kid is raring to fly, as a parent, it wouldn't be appropriate to hold him/her like a crab and keep pulling him/her to hold him/her down. The best current-day example for this would be Saina Nehwal...
Like V. Raghunathan mentioned, please do give your views.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Just to add to what I mentioned/suggested earlier.
Though I am NOT a Finance guy, by virtue of being in a profession where learning about the latest trends and disruptive sectors/fields that proliferate all over all the time—as a necessity and daily routine than as a hobby—I can say that CFA is not something that anyone can get through.
It's highly valued in top-notch companies—needless to say, it's also very tough to clear and is NOT for the average students.
Here's the link for your ready reference:
[CFA Program](http://www.cfainstitute.org/programs/cfaprogram/Pages/index.aspx)
In addition to the effort involved, the only other aspect that needs to be kept in mind would be the timeframes... it takes around 2 years to attain the CFA designation after one's name.
Though this may seem obtrusive, I would venture to add: when the kid is raring to fly, as a parent, it wouldn't be appropriate to hold him/her like a crab and keep pulling him/her to hold him/her down. The best current-day example for this would be Saina Nehwal...
Like V. Raghunathan mentioned, please do give your views.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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With a long history of training people in job search and interview skills, I can concur with most of the comments posted thus far.
The issue of self-confidence and the ability to cope with interviews is a tricky one. Some people are natural talkers, while others are shy and reserved. There are no easy answers.
As others have pointed out, preparation is the key to success and will go a long way toward enabling a candidate to perform well. However, that really only works when employers have a proper set of questions based on the skills and experience needed to do the job. Then the candidate can prepare confidently based on the position description. However, too many interviewers go down the path of asking totally irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the job in question. And there is this idiotic trend of asking things like how many cabs are there in New York City or something like that.
When faced with that sort of rubbish, it is not surprising that candidates fall in a heap and lose confidence. I am not disagreeing that candidates need to show the ability to think on their feet, be creative, and also show resilience. However, there are better ways of doing it.
I am not sure what it is like in India, but in the West, there is a growing tendency for parents to try and shield their children from hurt and disappointment. There are no winners and losers; everyone gets a prize, etc. Wrapping children in bubble wrap does nothing for their ability to cope with the real world, and that is sad.
I am sure every one of us here on CiteHR has been unsuccessful at more than one interview. We try to learn from our mistakes, pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again. It is part of our growth and development as human beings. It gives us the resilience to cope with the bigger disasters that can befall us along the way.
Finally, on the subject of feedback from interviews, many employers will not give feedback. That's a given. However, sometimes it is in the way you ask. I always tell people that if they decide to seek feedback, they should start by thanking the employer for the opportunity of the interview. Then, ask what they would need to do to be successful next time a position like this comes up. It won't always work, but sometimes it disarms the interviewer enough to coax them into giving some pointers. It goes without saying that you never burn your bridges. They may have liked you, but another candidate was stronger on THIS occasion.
From Australia, Melbourne
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The issue of self-confidence and the ability to cope with interviews is a tricky one. Some people are natural talkers, while others are shy and reserved. There are no easy answers.
As others have pointed out, preparation is the key to success and will go a long way toward enabling a candidate to perform well. However, that really only works when employers have a proper set of questions based on the skills and experience needed to do the job. Then the candidate can prepare confidently based on the position description. However, too many interviewers go down the path of asking totally irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the job in question. And there is this idiotic trend of asking things like how many cabs are there in New York City or something like that.
When faced with that sort of rubbish, it is not surprising that candidates fall in a heap and lose confidence. I am not disagreeing that candidates need to show the ability to think on their feet, be creative, and also show resilience. However, there are better ways of doing it.
I am not sure what it is like in India, but in the West, there is a growing tendency for parents to try and shield their children from hurt and disappointment. There are no winners and losers; everyone gets a prize, etc. Wrapping children in bubble wrap does nothing for their ability to cope with the real world, and that is sad.
I am sure every one of us here on CiteHR has been unsuccessful at more than one interview. We try to learn from our mistakes, pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again. It is part of our growth and development as human beings. It gives us the resilience to cope with the bigger disasters that can befall us along the way.
Finally, on the subject of feedback from interviews, many employers will not give feedback. That's a given. However, sometimes it is in the way you ask. I always tell people that if they decide to seek feedback, they should start by thanking the employer for the opportunity of the interview. Then, ask what they would need to do to be successful next time a position like this comes up. It won't always work, but sometimes it disarms the interviewer enough to coax them into giving some pointers. It goes without saying that you never burn your bridges. They may have liked you, but another candidate was stronger on THIS occasion.
From Australia, Melbourne
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Vijay,
I think the problem lies with the fact that your daughter has a sense of overconfidence, probably from the praise that you and your family heaped on her. She was the topper in school and college. Well, it is immaterial. Was she a top 10 ranked in CA? If not, she is at the same level more or less as thousands of other CAs looking for jobs in the market.
So, who told her that every company out there is just waiting to grab her? How did she get convinced that she would get a job in the first interview she gave? I suspect it was you. Today, the demand for freshers is low as experienced persons are available all over the place. Attending 20 interviews for a job is common.
From your post, it appears to me that the problem was created by you. Like you are stressing on her interview skills, which means you are still thinking that she should have got the first job. And that it's her interview skills alone that were the problem.
Now, first disabuse yourself of the fact that the job is easy to get. Explain to her that the longer she is out of a job, the more difficult it will be to get one. So she needs to get a job quickly even if it's not what she was told is worthwhile for her to do.
Try to see if the firm she did articles with has a place for her.
If not, sit with her and go through recruitment adverts to see which one is worth applying for, and help her do that. Ensure that she goes with the understanding that she may not get the job and that attending more interviews is important for when she goes for the one she wants.
By the way, there will hardly be jobs for CFA in Pune.
From India, Mumbai
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I think the problem lies with the fact that your daughter has a sense of overconfidence, probably from the praise that you and your family heaped on her. She was the topper in school and college. Well, it is immaterial. Was she a top 10 ranked in CA? If not, she is at the same level more or less as thousands of other CAs looking for jobs in the market.
So, who told her that every company out there is just waiting to grab her? How did she get convinced that she would get a job in the first interview she gave? I suspect it was you. Today, the demand for freshers is low as experienced persons are available all over the place. Attending 20 interviews for a job is common.
From your post, it appears to me that the problem was created by you. Like you are stressing on her interview skills, which means you are still thinking that she should have got the first job. And that it's her interview skills alone that were the problem.
Now, first disabuse yourself of the fact that the job is easy to get. Explain to her that the longer she is out of a job, the more difficult it will be to get one. So she needs to get a job quickly even if it's not what she was told is worthwhile for her to do.
Try to see if the firm she did articles with has a place for her.
If not, sit with her and go through recruitment adverts to see which one is worth applying for, and help her do that. Ensure that she goes with the understanding that she may not get the job and that attending more interviews is important for when she goes for the one she wants.
By the way, there will hardly be jobs for CFA in Pune.
From India, Mumbai
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