I know many of you probably think that I am overdoing but this is too good to be true. As many of you are probably aware, in the movie “Cheeni Kum”, the ever charming Mr Bachchan and the gorgeous and talented Tabu fall in love with one another like that other movie Nishabdh that came a little while ago. Cheeni Kum is much better in my view.
I will not divulge the story but there are a couple of interesting dialogues from HRM(right man for the right job) perspective. Only yesterday, I replied to somebody’s post in detail on the book “First, break all the rules” which gives examples of how people miscast(like movie actors) in their roles in corporate life suffer along with their companies.
In the movie, Mr Bachchan who is a Chef tells a subordinate chef “ Agar pyaaz hing ki jagah le sakta hai or hing pyaz ki jagah tau tumhara yehaan kya kaam hai(If onion can take the place of asafetida and vice-versa, what is the need for you to be here? ” implying that every thing is unique in its role. He then goes on to describe how great an art cooking is and what a privilege it was to be a cook. In real life, only somebody who really loves his occupation can talk like that. Bachchan’s real life was also like that- he left the corporate world in 1969 to follow his passion, acting.
More interesting is what Tabu tells her father while seeking to marry the much older Mr Bachchan “Better to spend 10 years with somebody you love rather than spend 50 with someone you don’t”. Since according to Mr Dale Carnegie the right occupation(HRM) and the right spouse are the two most important decisions of one’s life, that was quite an insight for the other major decision(occupation) as well:-
India’s great mystic in recent times, Osho once gave the example of a very successful surgeon for most of his life(50 years) who actually wanted to be a musician
In that person’s own words “ I am sad because I never wanted to be a surgeon but wanted to be a musician. My parents forced me, and I was not strong enough to rebel, and they destroyed my whole life. Even if I was the worst musician in the country, I would have loved it. It was my own choice, my own individuality, my own signature. This has been slavery. And because I am getting retired, I feel sad. My whole life is wasted and it does not seem now that I can begin as a musician”
Osho reminded him that his parents had their best interests at heart and to forgive them and start even in old age.
He lived 15 years more and died a contended man although he never became a famous musician. Nobody ever heard that he was a celebrity as far as music is concerned. His music remained not very developed, because Indian music particularly needs tremendous effort, eight to ten hours practice everyday, a lifelong discipline; only then can you create those subtle nuances. It is not jazz that any idiot can do.
Osho “If he had gone into music from the very beginning, he might have become one of the most authentic, creative musicians of the wold. But even though he was old now, he had died happy”. I(Osho) was at his bedside when he died and he said to me “ There are no words of gratitude for you. You encouraged me. I had lost all hope. I am dying fulfilled. I am happy. At least for fifteen years I have been myself. At least for fifteen years there have been moments when I got lost completely into music. And those have been the greatest moments of my life”
I was skeptical when I read this for the first time several years ago but one begins to appreciate such things better in midlife when one comes across other examples. Even Daniel Goleman in his book Emotional intelligence that many corporate executives drawing seven figure salaries want to go into more fulfilling occupations- social work or opening a restaurant. Why does it take mid-life to realize this?
There is one American gentleman who is trying to do the same thing:-
http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/10/2...r-professions/
The other interesting Indian example that I came across was former Billiards champion Geet Sethi’s partner, Mr Sunil Aggarwal who, despite being qualified from IIM(Ahmedabad) and IIT(Delhi) and being a managing director of a media company complained of feelings of inadequacy and failure. As Tabu says, why should you spend a major portion of your life doing something that you don’t like(cheeni kum?) and try to make up for it at the fag end of life.
From India, New Delhi
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8I will not divulge the story but there are a couple of interesting dialogues from HRM(right man for the right job) perspective. Only yesterday, I replied to somebody’s post in detail on the book “First, break all the rules” which gives examples of how people miscast(like movie actors) in their roles in corporate life suffer along with their companies.
In the movie, Mr Bachchan who is a Chef tells a subordinate chef “ Agar pyaaz hing ki jagah le sakta hai or hing pyaz ki jagah tau tumhara yehaan kya kaam hai(If onion can take the place of asafetida and vice-versa, what is the need for you to be here? ” implying that every thing is unique in its role. He then goes on to describe how great an art cooking is and what a privilege it was to be a cook. In real life, only somebody who really loves his occupation can talk like that. Bachchan’s real life was also like that- he left the corporate world in 1969 to follow his passion, acting.
More interesting is what Tabu tells her father while seeking to marry the much older Mr Bachchan “Better to spend 10 years with somebody you love rather than spend 50 with someone you don’t”. Since according to Mr Dale Carnegie the right occupation(HRM) and the right spouse are the two most important decisions of one’s life, that was quite an insight for the other major decision(occupation) as well:-
India’s great mystic in recent times, Osho once gave the example of a very successful surgeon for most of his life(50 years) who actually wanted to be a musician
In that person’s own words “ I am sad because I never wanted to be a surgeon but wanted to be a musician. My parents forced me, and I was not strong enough to rebel, and they destroyed my whole life. Even if I was the worst musician in the country, I would have loved it. It was my own choice, my own individuality, my own signature. This has been slavery. And because I am getting retired, I feel sad. My whole life is wasted and it does not seem now that I can begin as a musician”
Osho reminded him that his parents had their best interests at heart and to forgive them and start even in old age.
He lived 15 years more and died a contended man although he never became a famous musician. Nobody ever heard that he was a celebrity as far as music is concerned. His music remained not very developed, because Indian music particularly needs tremendous effort, eight to ten hours practice everyday, a lifelong discipline; only then can you create those subtle nuances. It is not jazz that any idiot can do.
Osho “If he had gone into music from the very beginning, he might have become one of the most authentic, creative musicians of the wold. But even though he was old now, he had died happy”. I(Osho) was at his bedside when he died and he said to me “ There are no words of gratitude for you. You encouraged me. I had lost all hope. I am dying fulfilled. I am happy. At least for fifteen years I have been myself. At least for fifteen years there have been moments when I got lost completely into music. And those have been the greatest moments of my life”
I was skeptical when I read this for the first time several years ago but one begins to appreciate such things better in midlife when one comes across other examples. Even Daniel Goleman in his book Emotional intelligence that many corporate executives drawing seven figure salaries want to go into more fulfilling occupations- social work or opening a restaurant. Why does it take mid-life to realize this?
There is one American gentleman who is trying to do the same thing:-
http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/10/2...r-professions/
The other interesting Indian example that I came across was former Billiards champion Geet Sethi’s partner, Mr Sunil Aggarwal who, despite being qualified from IIM(Ahmedabad) and IIT(Delhi) and being a managing director of a media company complained of feelings of inadequacy and failure. As Tabu says, why should you spend a major portion of your life doing something that you don’t like(cheeni kum?) and try to make up for it at the fag end of life.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren
Really good observation and comparison.
I liked your approach very much to see and relate the movie in different perspective.
Regards
Shalini
From India, Pune
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Really good observation and comparison.
I liked your approach very much to see and relate the movie in different perspective.
Regards
Shalini
From India, Pune
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Thanks, everybody. Well, the movie is sweet for its own sake and is a must watch. Certain dialogues tend to hit you and remind you of something which is also illustrated on my posts on the other two movies "TA RA RaM PUM and HRM" and "Kabhi Alvida na kehna and HRM"
The substance is more important. American consultant Lance Secretan says:-
“Finding joy in our work depends on the relationship between our soul and our work and on the degree to which our work engages and nourishes our soul. Whether or not you have found your calling determines the level of soulfulness in your work. We all experience soulful moments in our lives- when we are at the symphony, when we watch a sunset, when we gaze into the eyes of a baby, when we play with a puppy, when we are deeply appreciated or practicing our highest mastery or when we are connected to the divine. We all want to feel the same way at work throughout our lives. There is no reason why this should not be so.”
Nanette Hucknall goes a step further:-
Our souls must feel that they have done the best work possible whether as mail clerks or senators. Even if the person has found his vocation late in life, if he works at it even for two- three years before his death, those two three years will have fulfilled his inner need and he will die feeling a sense of achievement in terms of his life’s work.”
Both of them have spoken of fulfillment and in Hucknall's book, she has explained in detail how the person's friends and family have to suffer if he has to go "back to school". Books like "First, break all the rules or Working identity speak about this very well. (My post on exploring Career transition in India gives other examples)
India has a population of a billion people and to the best of my knowledge, the Americans have better HRM than ours in this respect. How bad is the Indian situation or is it that Indians automatically fit into their roles or do we just resign ourselves to our destinies?
We shall round off with Osho," Somebody who could have been a poet is just a moneylender. Somebody who could have been a painter is a doctor. Somebody who could have been a good doctor is a businessman. Everybody is displaced. Everybody is doing something that he never wanted to do. Hence unhappiness. Happiness happens when you fit with your life. When you fit so harmoniously that whatsoever you are doing is your joy. Then suddenly you come to know that meditation follows you. If you love the work you are doing, if you love the way you are living, then you are meditative. It is deemed that happiness comes when one is meditative. It is just the other way around. One is meditative when one is happy. "- Must point out there that this is specially so for people with an artistic bent of mind.
My son's teacher told me once how she had to sacrifice her career for the sake of her children. If all what is written above is true, it is like sacrificing yourself and it is a tribute to the ladies if they live an unfulfilled file for being homemakers in the larger intererest of their families.
From India, New Delhi
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The substance is more important. American consultant Lance Secretan says:-
“Finding joy in our work depends on the relationship between our soul and our work and on the degree to which our work engages and nourishes our soul. Whether or not you have found your calling determines the level of soulfulness in your work. We all experience soulful moments in our lives- when we are at the symphony, when we watch a sunset, when we gaze into the eyes of a baby, when we play with a puppy, when we are deeply appreciated or practicing our highest mastery or when we are connected to the divine. We all want to feel the same way at work throughout our lives. There is no reason why this should not be so.”
Nanette Hucknall goes a step further:-
Our souls must feel that they have done the best work possible whether as mail clerks or senators. Even if the person has found his vocation late in life, if he works at it even for two- three years before his death, those two three years will have fulfilled his inner need and he will die feeling a sense of achievement in terms of his life’s work.”
Both of them have spoken of fulfillment and in Hucknall's book, she has explained in detail how the person's friends and family have to suffer if he has to go "back to school". Books like "First, break all the rules or Working identity speak about this very well. (My post on exploring Career transition in India gives other examples)
India has a population of a billion people and to the best of my knowledge, the Americans have better HRM than ours in this respect. How bad is the Indian situation or is it that Indians automatically fit into their roles or do we just resign ourselves to our destinies?
We shall round off with Osho," Somebody who could have been a poet is just a moneylender. Somebody who could have been a painter is a doctor. Somebody who could have been a good doctor is a businessman. Everybody is displaced. Everybody is doing something that he never wanted to do. Hence unhappiness. Happiness happens when you fit with your life. When you fit so harmoniously that whatsoever you are doing is your joy. Then suddenly you come to know that meditation follows you. If you love the work you are doing, if you love the way you are living, then you are meditative. It is deemed that happiness comes when one is meditative. It is just the other way around. One is meditative when one is happy. "- Must point out there that this is specially so for people with an artistic bent of mind.
My son's teacher told me once how she had to sacrifice her career for the sake of her children. If all what is written above is true, it is like sacrificing yourself and it is a tribute to the ladies if they live an unfulfilled file for being homemakers in the larger intererest of their families.
From India, New Delhi
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Well, well, we have an actress named Shilpa Shetty, and what you have said is what Mr. Bachchan said in one of his biggest hits "Kabhi Kabhie" - "Zindagi me sabko sab kuch to nahin mil jaata" (Everybody does not get everything in life). That does not imply that you shouldn't try. This brings to mind an interesting interview that the Infosys CEO, Nandan Nilekani, gave to Hindustan Times: "I feel privileged that there are batchmates of mine who are much smarter and work much harder, but I happen to have a higher net worth than them because of being at the right place at the right time."
People with the same degree can also have vastly different levels of success, whether it be external wealth or inner wealth (satisfaction). Does that mean you shouldn't pursue a basic degree? If you are aware of all the above at a young age, your chances improve.
From India, New Delhi
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People with the same degree can also have vastly different levels of success, whether it be external wealth or inner wealth (satisfaction). Does that mean you shouldn't pursue a basic degree? If you are aware of all the above at a young age, your chances improve.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
That was indeed very interesting and thought-provoking! But there is one thing that I would like to add to it. I still have not seen the movie and am planning to watch it very soon. From the trailers that I came across and the title "Cheeni Kum," what I inferred the movie to be about was sarcasm! The connection that you have put forward does seem very appropriate. But from a literary point of view, what it could also infer is how two sarcastic people fall in love through their sarcastic conversations, and this sarcasm in relation to "less of sweetness in the relation," i.e., "Cheeni Kum."
Rgds,
Sharmistha
From India, Khopoli
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That was indeed very interesting and thought-provoking! But there is one thing that I would like to add to it. I still have not seen the movie and am planning to watch it very soon. From the trailers that I came across and the title "Cheeni Kum," what I inferred the movie to be about was sarcasm! The connection that you have put forward does seem very appropriate. But from a literary point of view, what it could also infer is how two sarcastic people fall in love through their sarcastic conversations, and this sarcasm in relation to "less of sweetness in the relation," i.e., "Cheeni Kum."
Rgds,
Sharmistha
From India, Khopoli
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Hi,
This discussion brings to my mind a verse from a song by Van Halen, which goes like this:
"There's a time and place for everything, and everyone. We can push with all our might, but nothing's gonna come, No - Nothing's gonna change."
Experimentation is a key factor, as Sanjna mentioned. That means having an open, questioning, curious mind that would delight in observing, exult in understanding, and celebrate life.
The songs "One Moment in Time" by Whitney Houston and "I Believe I Can Fly" by R. Kelly are also highly motivational for me.
"One Moment..." talks about being on the edge of success, and you can just taste it. You become "more than you thought you could be, and all of your dreams are a heartbeat away, and the answers are all up to you." This is precisely what is meant by following your own dream and not living another person's dream.
"I Believe..." is a song that also takes you into the world of self-belief and reasons for "dreaming about it - night & day". So "if I can see it (my dream), then I can be it. If I just believe it, there's nothing to it".
Too many times we discuss our dreams with people who give you reasons not to dream, rather than with those who will support us in making the dream a reality. So we give up on these dreams by which we could fly away to our moment in time. Personally, I had a huge argument with my parents about not getting into software because I knew I wasn't good at it. They couldn't understand why I wouldn't study and improve in it. I didn't know what I was good at at that time, but today I know I am happier than I would have been in software.
Thanks for this topic!
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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This discussion brings to my mind a verse from a song by Van Halen, which goes like this:
"There's a time and place for everything, and everyone. We can push with all our might, but nothing's gonna come, No - Nothing's gonna change."
Experimentation is a key factor, as Sanjna mentioned. That means having an open, questioning, curious mind that would delight in observing, exult in understanding, and celebrate life.
The songs "One Moment in Time" by Whitney Houston and "I Believe I Can Fly" by R. Kelly are also highly motivational for me.
"One Moment..." talks about being on the edge of success, and you can just taste it. You become "more than you thought you could be, and all of your dreams are a heartbeat away, and the answers are all up to you." This is precisely what is meant by following your own dream and not living another person's dream.
"I Believe..." is a song that also takes you into the world of self-belief and reasons for "dreaming about it - night & day". So "if I can see it (my dream), then I can be it. If I just believe it, there's nothing to it".
Too many times we discuss our dreams with people who give you reasons not to dream, rather than with those who will support us in making the dream a reality. So we give up on these dreams by which we could fly away to our moment in time. Personally, I had a huge argument with my parents about not getting into software because I knew I wasn't good at it. They couldn't understand why I wouldn't study and improve in it. I didn't know what I was good at at that time, but today I know I am happier than I would have been in software.
Thanks for this topic!
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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Good thoughts & Comparison. I think life is full of small stories, and each incident can give you a lesson. It's on you how you look at it.
I do strongly believe that to be successful in any profession, you need to have that passion and love for that profession, and you will do wonders. Like if you have seen Asha Bhosle in SA RE GA MA, it's all about her love and passion for singing. They worship singing. You can see and hear when they correct participants.
From India, Mumbai
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I do strongly believe that to be successful in any profession, you need to have that passion and love for that profession, and you will do wonders. Like if you have seen Asha Bhosle in SA RE GA MA, it's all about her love and passion for singing. They worship singing. You can see and hear when they correct participants.
From India, Mumbai
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Sanjna’s thoughts in the first post are very practical. “One day I got a call from my friend to join a recruitment firm. I experimented and was very happy and successful in it.”. There is no sure-fire way unless you try and attempt- “In work, we have the possibility of discovering ourselves”.
There is one case in Po Bronson who was doing summer jobs only for this purpose which is very wise actually because the education system is more knowledge centric then skill centric. One has to be “lucky” however to have such friends where you can see whether your profile matches. You also have to be lucky if you strike a match. The other extreme can try for a lifetime and end up writing books like “ I don’t know what I want but it is not this” . Morgan and Banks(HRD consultants in 28 countries before monster took over) used to say that Niche people are the worst sufferers.
What Sanjna has said about the subconscious mind is also valid but with so many Americans researching on it and not finding a clear cut solution, one wonders about the effectiveness. If “career meditations” were really successful, the implications are mind boggling. That is the whole purpose of the discussion. Why are so many Americans suffering and what is the situation in India?
Sharmishtha- The start is somewhat sarcastic(conversation, not the people) but the end is sweet. The serious sarcasm is all about Tabu not being allowed to marry Mr Bachchan but you will not enjoy the movie if I told you. About my analogy, I have been fascinated by “right occupation” and “Right spouse” being the most important decisions mentioned by Mr Dale Carnegie. Certain dialogues remind you of that.
What Ryan has said is quite profound. "There's a time and place for everything, and everyone. We can push with all our might, but nothing's gonna come, No - Nothing's gonna change". reminds of “Samay se pehle, bhagya se zyaada”. Will the moment come in this lifetime? That is not necessary. The great writer, Munshi Prem Chand, Shakespeare , the great painter, Vincent Van Goh enjoyed posthumous success after a lifetime of struggle. Will the personal profile, business profile and market profile combine in this lifetime? Sometimes the former two can take a very long time. Only when all the three combine, one can be assured of commercial success. This is why when you dream, you must have an eye for market profile. Dreams should not be stopped but one has to be grounded in reality as well. Actor Govinda has been more commercially successful than brilliant actor Naseerudin shah because the market profile suits him better. Nobody has control over the forces of demand and supply- dreams should neither be given up nor one should dream like “Alice in Wonderland”.
Ryan has made a very good point actually. I play Tennis everyday and I see so many talented players because nobody has the talent to go the whole hog because of our stupid education system. To follow that dream and reach anywhere, you have to play for at least 8-9 hours everyday apart from being able to afford it. It has to be a focused effort as a result of which studies suffer and no parent is willing to take the risk(even if they have a business sometimes). There is such a fear of degrees that no one takes a chance. Instead of there was a system of management coaching where you learn practical management from experienced people(instead of academicians) , that fellow has to do well if he has the functional talent. If he does not have the talent, degrees do not mean much. Mr Sunil Aggarwal who is IIM(Ahmedabad) and IIT(Delhi) also said “It is a lousy idea to do MBA if you are not suited for business”. From my experience too, it is like putting the cart before the horse. Dreams can fructify if only one is activity and skill centric and not knowledge centric.
Bhakhi_nir has echoed my words(http://mypyp.wordpress.com/) and most artists like Asha Bhosle have the same attitude or Bharkti towards their profession.
Isn’t it fascinating that an accountant should want to be a carpenter, men want to be nurses(book First, break all the rules) and a child psychologist opted to be a taxi driver? That implies somewhat that everyone has a preordained role to play.
From India, New Delhi
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There is one case in Po Bronson who was doing summer jobs only for this purpose which is very wise actually because the education system is more knowledge centric then skill centric. One has to be “lucky” however to have such friends where you can see whether your profile matches. You also have to be lucky if you strike a match. The other extreme can try for a lifetime and end up writing books like “ I don’t know what I want but it is not this” . Morgan and Banks(HRD consultants in 28 countries before monster took over) used to say that Niche people are the worst sufferers.
What Sanjna has said about the subconscious mind is also valid but with so many Americans researching on it and not finding a clear cut solution, one wonders about the effectiveness. If “career meditations” were really successful, the implications are mind boggling. That is the whole purpose of the discussion. Why are so many Americans suffering and what is the situation in India?
Sharmishtha- The start is somewhat sarcastic(conversation, not the people) but the end is sweet. The serious sarcasm is all about Tabu not being allowed to marry Mr Bachchan but you will not enjoy the movie if I told you. About my analogy, I have been fascinated by “right occupation” and “Right spouse” being the most important decisions mentioned by Mr Dale Carnegie. Certain dialogues remind you of that.
What Ryan has said is quite profound. "There's a time and place for everything, and everyone. We can push with all our might, but nothing's gonna come, No - Nothing's gonna change". reminds of “Samay se pehle, bhagya se zyaada”. Will the moment come in this lifetime? That is not necessary. The great writer, Munshi Prem Chand, Shakespeare , the great painter, Vincent Van Goh enjoyed posthumous success after a lifetime of struggle. Will the personal profile, business profile and market profile combine in this lifetime? Sometimes the former two can take a very long time. Only when all the three combine, one can be assured of commercial success. This is why when you dream, you must have an eye for market profile. Dreams should not be stopped but one has to be grounded in reality as well. Actor Govinda has been more commercially successful than brilliant actor Naseerudin shah because the market profile suits him better. Nobody has control over the forces of demand and supply- dreams should neither be given up nor one should dream like “Alice in Wonderland”.
Ryan has made a very good point actually. I play Tennis everyday and I see so many talented players because nobody has the talent to go the whole hog because of our stupid education system. To follow that dream and reach anywhere, you have to play for at least 8-9 hours everyday apart from being able to afford it. It has to be a focused effort as a result of which studies suffer and no parent is willing to take the risk(even if they have a business sometimes). There is such a fear of degrees that no one takes a chance. Instead of there was a system of management coaching where you learn practical management from experienced people(instead of academicians) , that fellow has to do well if he has the functional talent. If he does not have the talent, degrees do not mean much. Mr Sunil Aggarwal who is IIM(Ahmedabad) and IIT(Delhi) also said “It is a lousy idea to do MBA if you are not suited for business”. From my experience too, it is like putting the cart before the horse. Dreams can fructify if only one is activity and skill centric and not knowledge centric.
Bhakhi_nir has echoed my words(http://mypyp.wordpress.com/) and most artists like Asha Bhosle have the same attitude or Bharkti towards their profession.
Isn’t it fascinating that an accountant should want to be a carpenter, men want to be nurses(book First, break all the rules) and a child psychologist opted to be a taxi driver? That implies somewhat that everyone has a preordained role to play.
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you, Hiren, for your thoughtful comments. You appear to be a well-read person, unlike most of us who sacrifice our lives for a big fat salary and consider reading to be just a pastime that we seldom indulge in.
I, somehow, don't agree with you, Osho, or all those authors you named. I, myself, am a good example. I wanted to be an architect, but my father suggested that I should become an engineer. I became an engineer, and a dedicated one. I gained enough recognition and wealth in real estate. Then, I ventured into jeanswear production. I achieved success there as well. However, I found it challenging to manage all fronts single-handedly and eventually had to step back. I initiated a business school from the grassroots level, and today it stands as one of the best-run business schools in the country.
My belief is that excellence stems from passion, which is fueled by involvement, commitment, and a selfless purpose. I am confident that I will succeed in whatever endeavor I pursue because I will immerse myself deeply in it.
Cheers,
-PG
From India
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I, somehow, don't agree with you, Osho, or all those authors you named. I, myself, am a good example. I wanted to be an architect, but my father suggested that I should become an engineer. I became an engineer, and a dedicated one. I gained enough recognition and wealth in real estate. Then, I ventured into jeanswear production. I achieved success there as well. However, I found it challenging to manage all fronts single-handedly and eventually had to step back. I initiated a business school from the grassroots level, and today it stands as one of the best-run business schools in the country.
My belief is that excellence stems from passion, which is fueled by involvement, commitment, and a selfless purpose. I am confident that I will succeed in whatever endeavor I pursue because I will immerse myself deeply in it.
Cheers,
-PG
From India
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Hi Hiren, Excellent perception. Good comparison. It forces me to watch the movie :D. Keep sharing excellent information with us. Regards Jagdish.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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It is really good, specially the part which you have mentioned that at middle age people want to do the profession which they like..... Thanks. Rahul Jha
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Sanjna- I read the book “Power of subconscious mind long time ago”. I don’t discuss things like subconscious mind, dreams, latent oneness deeply because it becomes a hypothetical discussion as one cannot attribute how much of the output is because of that.
Even soul should be just viewed as “deep contentment” here. The whole point of the discussion is that if there is such a thing which frustrates people later in life(I have read about so many Americans who are miserable despite money-look at the kind of books people have written on the opening page of my blog- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/ ), it is better to know early and take corrective steps.
Thanks amirarm and gogetter
Latikapg- It is a great tragedy that “People who are in power have no time to read but people who do not read have no business to be in power” according to a philosophy. The biggest advantage of reading is that you don’t go by only one experience.
What Osho had said is more for people with an artistic bent of mind. Even the chairman of ICICI, Mr Kamath had said once that if you want artistic contentment in the business world, you must innovate continuously. You seem to be a very versatile person but everyone is not like that. To many people, deep involvement comes only from genuine innate passion and there are many consultants talking like that though there maybe many like you who can force passion from commitment or maybe you have not come across something that does not interest you at all. Doing that for a lifetime can be tough. Mr Bachchan had mentioned in one interview that he found the corporate world very "muindane"..
Even in the stockmarket , every good trader does not become a good investor and vice-versa and the profiles of day, swing and position traders are completely different and people burn their fingers when they try something different. There are other examples to show what even the sub vocation has to be right- every good test cricketer does not become a good one day player and vice versa.. Versatile people are different.
Osho was considered more of a spiritual person but if so many management consultants have started expressing satisfaction in terms of “soul” , there is probably something to it. Should that be probed? What is the Indian scene on that?
Thanks jagdishashah, rahuljha402, madhurashinde
From India, New Delhi
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Even soul should be just viewed as “deep contentment” here. The whole point of the discussion is that if there is such a thing which frustrates people later in life(I have read about so many Americans who are miserable despite money-look at the kind of books people have written on the opening page of my blog- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/ ), it is better to know early and take corrective steps.
Thanks amirarm and gogetter
Latikapg- It is a great tragedy that “People who are in power have no time to read but people who do not read have no business to be in power” according to a philosophy. The biggest advantage of reading is that you don’t go by only one experience.
What Osho had said is more for people with an artistic bent of mind. Even the chairman of ICICI, Mr Kamath had said once that if you want artistic contentment in the business world, you must innovate continuously. You seem to be a very versatile person but everyone is not like that. To many people, deep involvement comes only from genuine innate passion and there are many consultants talking like that though there maybe many like you who can force passion from commitment or maybe you have not come across something that does not interest you at all. Doing that for a lifetime can be tough. Mr Bachchan had mentioned in one interview that he found the corporate world very "muindane"..
Even in the stockmarket , every good trader does not become a good investor and vice-versa and the profiles of day, swing and position traders are completely different and people burn their fingers when they try something different. There are other examples to show what even the sub vocation has to be right- every good test cricketer does not become a good one day player and vice versa.. Versatile people are different.
Osho was considered more of a spiritual person but if so many management consultants have started expressing satisfaction in terms of “soul” , there is probably something to it. Should that be probed? What is the Indian scene on that?
Thanks jagdishashah, rahuljha402, madhurashinde
From India, New Delhi
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Hi All,
Very true, many a lady who becomes a homemaker sacrifices her career. She would compromise and take refuge in the satisfaction of being a mother. One may not always find the job that gives immense satisfaction, but one has to compromise and find happiness and satisfaction in the job. Once the basic needs are met (like in Maslow's Theory), can one think of satisfying one's dreams, listening to the soul... Needs may not be just the "roti, kapda aur makaan"; it could be ailing parents who need to be taken care of, a successful and ambitious spouse, children's education... It could even be the suitability of the climate of a particular place.
Each one's priorities may not help him/her fulfill one's inner passions entirely. But man usually seeks happiness and finds ways to satisfy oneself, at least partially.
A "job fit" to a large extent may not be possible, at least not 100%. A person may not be passionate about the job but may have the aptitude and attitude to perform, and he would be successful. Perhaps he may not have other choices except to choose the job offered. It's his needs, personality, and the environment that will ensure he fits into the job.
Regards,
TT
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Very true, many a lady who becomes a homemaker sacrifices her career. She would compromise and take refuge in the satisfaction of being a mother. One may not always find the job that gives immense satisfaction, but one has to compromise and find happiness and satisfaction in the job. Once the basic needs are met (like in Maslow's Theory), can one think of satisfying one's dreams, listening to the soul... Needs may not be just the "roti, kapda aur makaan"; it could be ailing parents who need to be taken care of, a successful and ambitious spouse, children's education... It could even be the suitability of the climate of a particular place.
Each one's priorities may not help him/her fulfill one's inner passions entirely. But man usually seeks happiness and finds ways to satisfy oneself, at least partially.
A "job fit" to a large extent may not be possible, at least not 100%. A person may not be passionate about the job but may have the aptitude and attitude to perform, and he would be successful. Perhaps he may not have other choices except to choose the job offered. It's his needs, personality, and the environment that will ensure he fits into the job.
Regards,
TT
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Bobby_tersy has given very practical and interesting insights.
100% jot fit is not possible indeed, and one has to strive for excellence, not perfection like in other management disciplines. Artists are the worst sufferers in my view, and environment and personality cannot always compensate. From the point of view of "Success is getting what you have got, but happiness is wanting what you have got" also, you have written well, but does one have the stamina to do that (unfulfilling work) for a lifetime? (An American gentleman in one of my posts above suffered bankruptcy and divorce to change his profession. He was so fed up.)
Maslow's hierarchy is more of a perception - food, clothing, shelter, social affiliation, self-actualization, which is true in a certain context. I had written my first article "Don't settle for less than a calling" (a title chosen by the editor) in November 2001. In 2002, I bumped into a book called "Karma, Destiny, and Career" by Nanette Hucknall. Some of the contents of which are:
"To know the self is to know your spirit. The work one selects is most important as it always helps the soul to go to another level of maturity. It is necessary to look into your inner self to discover your true life work. Emotional blocks may exist with roots in this life or past life or both. These blocks can prevent people from discovering their true vocation. For the growth of each soul, it is important to experience all areas of knowledge with a sense of achievement. Our souls must feel that we have done the best work possible, whether as mail clerks or Senators.
"No matter how important or well-paying your job is, if it is not your life's work, you will always find something wrong with it. The experience of wholeness or inner peace comes only when one is fulfilling one's full potential."
Though she has devoted chapters to how family and friends have to suffer when the concerned person has to go "back to school," I thought all this was too far-fetched. After that, I have come across so many consultants and so many Americans writing books on the subject that one wonders whether or not this too is a basic need. People are miserable despite monetary achievements and doing crazy switch-overs.
People keep looking for "meaningful work" despite being well-established. Perhaps this too is a basic need, and Maslow needs a review, or maybe Indians will start behaving like Americans after we are developed enough and can think beyond "Roti, Kapda aur Makaan." Somebody told me that just as one climbs the different floors of a building and a different view of the ground is seen from each floor, human needs and wants change as we go through life and situations. Since HRD is about people, that is what it should stand for - HAPPINESS REPEATEDLY DEFINED. As a majority of waking hours are spent at work, this is critical anyway.
Corrected spelling and grammar have been applied. Line breaks have been adjusted for better readability.
From India, New Delhi
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100% jot fit is not possible indeed, and one has to strive for excellence, not perfection like in other management disciplines. Artists are the worst sufferers in my view, and environment and personality cannot always compensate. From the point of view of "Success is getting what you have got, but happiness is wanting what you have got" also, you have written well, but does one have the stamina to do that (unfulfilling work) for a lifetime? (An American gentleman in one of my posts above suffered bankruptcy and divorce to change his profession. He was so fed up.)
Maslow's hierarchy is more of a perception - food, clothing, shelter, social affiliation, self-actualization, which is true in a certain context. I had written my first article "Don't settle for less than a calling" (a title chosen by the editor) in November 2001. In 2002, I bumped into a book called "Karma, Destiny, and Career" by Nanette Hucknall. Some of the contents of which are:
"To know the self is to know your spirit. The work one selects is most important as it always helps the soul to go to another level of maturity. It is necessary to look into your inner self to discover your true life work. Emotional blocks may exist with roots in this life or past life or both. These blocks can prevent people from discovering their true vocation. For the growth of each soul, it is important to experience all areas of knowledge with a sense of achievement. Our souls must feel that we have done the best work possible, whether as mail clerks or Senators.
"No matter how important or well-paying your job is, if it is not your life's work, you will always find something wrong with it. The experience of wholeness or inner peace comes only when one is fulfilling one's full potential."
Though she has devoted chapters to how family and friends have to suffer when the concerned person has to go "back to school," I thought all this was too far-fetched. After that, I have come across so many consultants and so many Americans writing books on the subject that one wonders whether or not this too is a basic need. People are miserable despite monetary achievements and doing crazy switch-overs.
People keep looking for "meaningful work" despite being well-established. Perhaps this too is a basic need, and Maslow needs a review, or maybe Indians will start behaving like Americans after we are developed enough and can think beyond "Roti, Kapda aur Makaan." Somebody told me that just as one climbs the different floors of a building and a different view of the ground is seen from each floor, human needs and wants change as we go through life and situations. Since HRD is about people, that is what it should stand for - HAPPINESS REPEATEDLY DEFINED. As a majority of waking hours are spent at work, this is critical anyway.
Corrected spelling and grammar have been applied. Line breaks have been adjusted for better readability.
From India, New Delhi
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That is quite flattering, Sanjna. Those words are in quotes and from the author of "Karma, Destiny, and Career," Nanette Hucknall.
I have gone through the experience though. I don't know how many will agree.
From India, New Delhi
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I have gone through the experience though. I don't know how many will agree.
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
I used to browse this site regularly, but recently I haven't been doing so. This time, when I opened the site and read through your viewpoints on the topic - which is better: experience or qualification? - I couldn't stop myself from reading your other posts. They are really good. Thanks for the knowledge you are sharing on this forum.
Regards,
Smita
From India, Hyderabad
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I used to browse this site regularly, but recently I haven't been doing so. This time, when I opened the site and read through your viewpoints on the topic - which is better: experience or qualification? - I couldn't stop myself from reading your other posts. They are really good. Thanks for the knowledge you are sharing on this forum.
Regards,
Smita
From India, Hyderabad
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Thanks, Smita. I am not an HR person but since everybody has to manage people, all this is from observation and personal experience.
Since this example is likely to be published in an HR magazine(June Issue) and matches the profile of this post, we will take the real life examples of one of the finest actors of Hindi Cinema, Mr Balraj Sahni. To those who may not know, he is remembered for his memorable all time great portrayal of the Rikshawallah in Bimal Roy’s classic “Do Bhiga Zameen”
Though a writer and a poet by natural disposition, Balraj Sahni who was a businessman’s son was a career dabbler all his life - his father’s business, a printing press, Sevagram with Gandhiji , Shantiniketan with Rabindranath Tagore, London as a Radio Broadcaster, Actor in the Indian film Industry and when still unfulfilled, he went to his native Punjab to write in Punjabi.
This is one of the best descriptions of a man in the wrong occupation:-
In his book “My Brother, Balraj”, Bhisham Sahni while stating that his brother, the great actor,. Balraj Sahni had a literary bent of mind , describes his dissatisfaction in their father’s commission agent business vividly:-
“He was not content with the mode of life he had adopted and his impatience with it was increasing, with each passing day. That also explains the varied shifts that took place in his interests during the next few months. Dissatisfied with the vocation he had adopted, he was now groping for a better outlet for his talents and energies”.
Balraj Sahni used to participate in English plays and writing activities. This paragraph describes his plight even more vividly:-
“All these varied activities, more or less at the same time, only reflected Balraj’s inner restlessness and his increasing dissatisfaction. Such cultural ventures were perhaps a desperate attempt on the part of Balraj to convince himself that even while he was pursuing a business career, that he could somehow reconcile business with his inner urges. He had stuck on to business for nearly three years, out of deference for Father’s wishes, but his heart was not in it, and his dissatisfaction had begun to increase”
“Business had become indolent to him. He felt that he had drifted too long in a way of life which was indolent and wasteful and that he must plunge into some sort of activity and make way for himself”
On his stint in Journalism:-
“The paper had involved a great deal of strain, both physical and financial.. Moreover, Balraj had soon learnt that this was not the kind of activity for which he was meant. . The experience had left him sad but a great deal wiser”
After Sevagram with Gandhiji
“I am not cut out for political work. I shall do only cultural work. I want to be a writer”
Some of his life reminds you of what Dale Carnegie said more than 50 years ago “Do not feel compelled to join a trade or business because your family wants you to do it”
The writer of films like “Khosla ka Ghosla” and “Company”, Jaideep Sahni described wrong occupation as “Lifetime imprisonment” in an India Today issue. Somebody told me that the writer of “Rang De Basanti” , Prasun Joshi was an MBA who had shifted to films.
President Abdul kalam has experience of heading Space, Atomic Energy and Defence organizations. The people’s President must have worked with thousands of people and knows what he is talking about when he says in his autobiography “Wings of Fire”:-
“If you are a writer who would secretly prefer to be a lawyer or a doctor, your written words will feed but half the hunger of your readers; if you are a teacher who would rather be a businessman, your instructions will meet but half the need for knowledge of your students; if you are a scientist who hates science, your performance will satisfy but half the needs of your mission.” The personal happiness and failure to achieve results that come from being a square peg in a round hole is not by any means new. In another part of the book, he states, “I myself would tell naiveteé engineering students that when they choose their specialization, the essential point to consider is whether the choice articulates their innermost feelings and aspirations.”
Harvard University faculty have defined such aspirations as deeply embedded life interests. I have seen some very good power point presentations of competency mapping. Anybody on soul mapping?
From India, New Delhi
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Since this example is likely to be published in an HR magazine(June Issue) and matches the profile of this post, we will take the real life examples of one of the finest actors of Hindi Cinema, Mr Balraj Sahni. To those who may not know, he is remembered for his memorable all time great portrayal of the Rikshawallah in Bimal Roy’s classic “Do Bhiga Zameen”
Though a writer and a poet by natural disposition, Balraj Sahni who was a businessman’s son was a career dabbler all his life - his father’s business, a printing press, Sevagram with Gandhiji , Shantiniketan with Rabindranath Tagore, London as a Radio Broadcaster, Actor in the Indian film Industry and when still unfulfilled, he went to his native Punjab to write in Punjabi.
This is one of the best descriptions of a man in the wrong occupation:-
In his book “My Brother, Balraj”, Bhisham Sahni while stating that his brother, the great actor,. Balraj Sahni had a literary bent of mind , describes his dissatisfaction in their father’s commission agent business vividly:-
“He was not content with the mode of life he had adopted and his impatience with it was increasing, with each passing day. That also explains the varied shifts that took place in his interests during the next few months. Dissatisfied with the vocation he had adopted, he was now groping for a better outlet for his talents and energies”.
Balraj Sahni used to participate in English plays and writing activities. This paragraph describes his plight even more vividly:-
“All these varied activities, more or less at the same time, only reflected Balraj’s inner restlessness and his increasing dissatisfaction. Such cultural ventures were perhaps a desperate attempt on the part of Balraj to convince himself that even while he was pursuing a business career, that he could somehow reconcile business with his inner urges. He had stuck on to business for nearly three years, out of deference for Father’s wishes, but his heart was not in it, and his dissatisfaction had begun to increase”
“Business had become indolent to him. He felt that he had drifted too long in a way of life which was indolent and wasteful and that he must plunge into some sort of activity and make way for himself”
On his stint in Journalism:-
“The paper had involved a great deal of strain, both physical and financial.. Moreover, Balraj had soon learnt that this was not the kind of activity for which he was meant. . The experience had left him sad but a great deal wiser”
After Sevagram with Gandhiji
“I am not cut out for political work. I shall do only cultural work. I want to be a writer”
Some of his life reminds you of what Dale Carnegie said more than 50 years ago “Do not feel compelled to join a trade or business because your family wants you to do it”
The writer of films like “Khosla ka Ghosla” and “Company”, Jaideep Sahni described wrong occupation as “Lifetime imprisonment” in an India Today issue. Somebody told me that the writer of “Rang De Basanti” , Prasun Joshi was an MBA who had shifted to films.
President Abdul kalam has experience of heading Space, Atomic Energy and Defence organizations. The people’s President must have worked with thousands of people and knows what he is talking about when he says in his autobiography “Wings of Fire”:-
“If you are a writer who would secretly prefer to be a lawyer or a doctor, your written words will feed but half the hunger of your readers; if you are a teacher who would rather be a businessman, your instructions will meet but half the need for knowledge of your students; if you are a scientist who hates science, your performance will satisfy but half the needs of your mission.” The personal happiness and failure to achieve results that come from being a square peg in a round hole is not by any means new. In another part of the book, he states, “I myself would tell naiveteé engineering students that when they choose their specialization, the essential point to consider is whether the choice articulates their innermost feelings and aspirations.”
Harvard University faculty have defined such aspirations as deeply embedded life interests. I have seen some very good power point presentations of competency mapping. Anybody on soul mapping?
From India, New Delhi
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hi hiren it is very fantastic to see your view and your observation . It is true that satisfaction is must in everybody’s life but still it is a dream. regards kaninwal
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After reading your varied views on human attitude and behavior towards aspirations in life, I did a little soul-searching. I think I may end up feeling the same way as others, like Balraj Sahani once did, even after reaching the pinnacles of success in life - that perhaps it wasn't meant to be. However, at present, I am not leaning in that direction. As long as I am content with my accomplishments (excuse me if this sounds like self-praise, that's not my intention, though), what I want to convey is this: 80% of people may not achieve their desires, but they should realize that the world doesn't come to an end there. Happiness is a choice; if one wants to be happy, they will be, and if they don't know how to remain happy, they will be sad. It's all about contentment. If you give your 100%, sooner or later, you will attain what you seek. Sometimes, you may even receive more than you ever aspired for.
-PG
From India
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-PG
From India
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Can i’ve ur mail id if u don’t mind.. i want to discuss some important issue with you. Regards
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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latikapag
You have hit the nail on the head by using the word content- is satisfaction a necessity or a luxury?
In the context of artists, it is not uncommon to come across quotations such as:-
Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and paints his own nature into his pictures.
— Henry Ward Beecher (1813 - 1887),
Now, management consultants have started using the same language:-
According to American consultant Lance Secretan . “Finding joy in our work depends on the relationship between our soul and our work and on the degree to which our work engages and nourishes our soul. Whether or not you have found your calling determines the level of soulfulness in your work. We all experience soulful moments in our lives — when we are at the symphony, when we watch a sunset, when we gaze into the eyes of a baby, when we play with a puppy, when we are deeply appreciated or practicing our highest mastery or when we are connected to the divine. We all want to feel the same way at work throughout our lives. There is no reason why this should not be so.”
In our shastras, one’s life’s work is called Svadharma. Among Indian organizations, I have seen it only in about statement of shradhahrd.com.
Let’s see what the man who started it all himself has to say. While explaining the hierarchy of needs, this is what Mr Maslow has to say:-
Peak experiences are profound moments of love, understanding, happiness, or rapture, when a person feels more whole, alive, self-sufficient and yet a part of the world, more aware of truth, justice, harmony, goodness, and so on. Self-actualizing people have many such peak experiences. Not only are these his happiest and most thrilling moments, but they are also moments of greatest maturity, individuation, fulfillment - in a word, his healthiest moments. He becomes in these episodes more truly himself, more perfectly actualizing his potentialities, closer to the core of his Being, more fully human. A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." If these needs are not met, the person feels restlessness, on edge, tense, and lacking something. It is not always clear what a person wants when there is a need for self-actualization.
So, as long as the degree of mismatch with work is not too high, you can be content. In some other cases, forced contentment may have adverse long term health implications because being in continuous conflict with yourself is not easy. We can also say that why go for economic liberalization and hope for a higher rate of growth?. Why not be satisfied with the hindu rate of growth? We have a “spiritual legacy” after all? I am not digressing from the issue- contentment could be a misinterpretation here or we force ourselves to be content because career transition is tough and we have to support our families. The issue is not of “self praise”- your views are relevant for yourself and those who approximately match your profile but everybody is not the same which is why HRD is there.
As for getting everything sooner or later if you apply 100% is a misplaced statement in my view. If that were so the Bhagvad Gita would not have to say that do your action without bothering about the fruits which depend upon the forces of demand and supply. There are plenty of examples of posthumous successes.
I have heard this 80% dialogue many times-80% of the people are like that. If 80% of the people are miserable 80% of the times, that would be a strange life , isn’t it? Dale Carnegie also called people who hate their jobs the biggest wastages of Industrial society.
Are soulful experiences a necessity or a luxury-especially in the light of what Maslow has said and what many American consultants are saying.? The United states has plenty to be content about- why go after the soul?
From India, New Delhi
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You have hit the nail on the head by using the word content- is satisfaction a necessity or a luxury?
In the context of artists, it is not uncommon to come across quotations such as:-
Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and paints his own nature into his pictures.
— Henry Ward Beecher (1813 - 1887),
Now, management consultants have started using the same language:-
According to American consultant Lance Secretan . “Finding joy in our work depends on the relationship between our soul and our work and on the degree to which our work engages and nourishes our soul. Whether or not you have found your calling determines the level of soulfulness in your work. We all experience soulful moments in our lives — when we are at the symphony, when we watch a sunset, when we gaze into the eyes of a baby, when we play with a puppy, when we are deeply appreciated or practicing our highest mastery or when we are connected to the divine. We all want to feel the same way at work throughout our lives. There is no reason why this should not be so.”
In our shastras, one’s life’s work is called Svadharma. Among Indian organizations, I have seen it only in about statement of shradhahrd.com.
Let’s see what the man who started it all himself has to say. While explaining the hierarchy of needs, this is what Mr Maslow has to say:-
Peak experiences are profound moments of love, understanding, happiness, or rapture, when a person feels more whole, alive, self-sufficient and yet a part of the world, more aware of truth, justice, harmony, goodness, and so on. Self-actualizing people have many such peak experiences. Not only are these his happiest and most thrilling moments, but they are also moments of greatest maturity, individuation, fulfillment - in a word, his healthiest moments. He becomes in these episodes more truly himself, more perfectly actualizing his potentialities, closer to the core of his Being, more fully human. A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." If these needs are not met, the person feels restlessness, on edge, tense, and lacking something. It is not always clear what a person wants when there is a need for self-actualization.
So, as long as the degree of mismatch with work is not too high, you can be content. In some other cases, forced contentment may have adverse long term health implications because being in continuous conflict with yourself is not easy. We can also say that why go for economic liberalization and hope for a higher rate of growth?. Why not be satisfied with the hindu rate of growth? We have a “spiritual legacy” after all? I am not digressing from the issue- contentment could be a misinterpretation here or we force ourselves to be content because career transition is tough and we have to support our families. The issue is not of “self praise”- your views are relevant for yourself and those who approximately match your profile but everybody is not the same which is why HRD is there.
As for getting everything sooner or later if you apply 100% is a misplaced statement in my view. If that were so the Bhagvad Gita would not have to say that do your action without bothering about the fruits which depend upon the forces of demand and supply. There are plenty of examples of posthumous successes.
I have heard this 80% dialogue many times-80% of the people are like that. If 80% of the people are miserable 80% of the times, that would be a strange life , isn’t it? Dale Carnegie also called people who hate their jobs the biggest wastages of Industrial society.
Are soulful experiences a necessity or a luxury-especially in the light of what Maslow has said and what many American consultants are saying.? The United states has plenty to be content about- why go after the soul?
From India, New Delhi
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I absolutely agree with you. I believe 95% of people spend their lives doing what other want, something what others will cherish and appreciate. This results in killing your desire....this results in you being not you but someone others wanted to see you as......
Regards,
Tumul Singh
From India, Delhi
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Regards,
Tumul Singh
From India, Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
That was really wonderful. Normally, I do not like reading long articles, but this one was very thought-provoking. Now, not only will I see the movie, but I will also try to be a support for people who want to live their lives doing what they love, whether it's work or being with people.
Thanks again for such a wonderful insight into life!
Regards,
Seema
From India, Delhi
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That was really wonderful. Normally, I do not like reading long articles, but this one was very thought-provoking. Now, not only will I see the movie, but I will also try to be a support for people who want to live their lives doing what they love, whether it's work or being with people.
Thanks again for such a wonderful insight into life!
Regards,
Seema
From India, Delhi
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Thanks everybody. It is a coincidence that in today's sunday times Timeslife noted filmmaker Muzaffar Ali says the same thing. This may sound like old wine in new bottles but sometimes the expression is so unique that it is worth the effort. Creativity has also been defined as the rearrangement of the old.
Mr Muzaffar ali in the article "From "I" to nothing:-
"Buzurg tareen Tafreesh Kaar ast" ( The greatest recreation is your work. It is the greatest source of happiness)If you follow your heart, you are on a perpetual holiday." This reminds me of what Veteran actor Dev Anand while commenting on the secret of his endless energy even in old age said " Nothing can give you a high as your own work" . (Cheeni zyaada). There have been quotes by people on how hobbies are more a measure of people than their jobs and the luckiest person is the one whose hobby and profession is the same. I even read a quote which said "Work is not part of life but life itself". How true. We spend a majority of hours at work-what can be more important than work and harmonious work relationships?
Since we are management people, a management example would not be out of place. The great inventor Thomas Edison who is also one of the greatest scientist entrepreneur is famous for his remark "One percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration". Nearly all Entrepreneurs have worked very very hard while establishing their empires. According to Dale Carnegie, Thomas Edison also said "I never ever worked in my life.It was all fun". This from a man who worked eighteen hours a day and sleeping in his laboratory. One wonders wether it is hard work or long enjoyment. Is so much perspiration possible without a lot of inspiration. From the examples of Balraj Sahni and what our respected President have said, I doubt it.
In management it is said that, many times, one has to go southwards to go northwards so a negative example would also not be out of place. I remember reading about a Japanese grandfather while admonishing his drug addict grandson saying " After world war II, we had to build a whole nation from scratch. You have everything; then why all this? " Everything can mean different things to different people. In the words of Mr Edison again " “As a cure for worrying work is better than whisky”. Absence of the right work can also have the whisky effect- Budhdhi khisky:-
“ Work banishes those three great evils, boredom, vice and poverty.”- -Voltaire
From India, New Delhi
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Mr Muzaffar ali in the article "From "I" to nothing:-
"Buzurg tareen Tafreesh Kaar ast" ( The greatest recreation is your work. It is the greatest source of happiness)If you follow your heart, you are on a perpetual holiday." This reminds me of what Veteran actor Dev Anand while commenting on the secret of his endless energy even in old age said " Nothing can give you a high as your own work" . (Cheeni zyaada). There have been quotes by people on how hobbies are more a measure of people than their jobs and the luckiest person is the one whose hobby and profession is the same. I even read a quote which said "Work is not part of life but life itself". How true. We spend a majority of hours at work-what can be more important than work and harmonious work relationships?
Since we are management people, a management example would not be out of place. The great inventor Thomas Edison who is also one of the greatest scientist entrepreneur is famous for his remark "One percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration". Nearly all Entrepreneurs have worked very very hard while establishing their empires. According to Dale Carnegie, Thomas Edison also said "I never ever worked in my life.It was all fun". This from a man who worked eighteen hours a day and sleeping in his laboratory. One wonders wether it is hard work or long enjoyment. Is so much perspiration possible without a lot of inspiration. From the examples of Balraj Sahni and what our respected President have said, I doubt it.
In management it is said that, many times, one has to go southwards to go northwards so a negative example would also not be out of place. I remember reading about a Japanese grandfather while admonishing his drug addict grandson saying " After world war II, we had to build a whole nation from scratch. You have everything; then why all this? " Everything can mean different things to different people. In the words of Mr Edison again " “As a cure for worrying work is better than whisky”. Absence of the right work can also have the whisky effect- Budhdhi khisky:-
“ Work banishes those three great evils, boredom, vice and poverty.”- -Voltaire
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
You mentioned the following:
I wonder if you have read the book "How to be Idle" by Tom Hodgkinson. It's a very interesting and fascinating concept, which, among other things, speaks about the ideas generated when one is in a relaxed state of mind, in a state of physical inactivity. Being idle, it is said, gives time to ruminate on a problem or new knowledge and thus find better and more uses/solutions.
If I were to draw a parallel, the inventor of fire probably didn't foresee all the uses that it could be put to. The most immediate use would be to generate warmth. It is said that man learned to use fire for cooking when a piece of meat fell into the flames and gave off a good aroma. The rest is history, as they say. :) :wink:
Just a thought regarding poverty; I recall my uncle telling me that the bestselling authors have written their best works early in their careers; very few write good stuff once they are famous. When I asked why, he said, "their first book and the second were written when the author was hungry," and thus the author had "intrinsic motivation" 8).
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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You mentioned the following:
I wonder if you have read the book "How to be Idle" by Tom Hodgkinson. It's a very interesting and fascinating concept, which, among other things, speaks about the ideas generated when one is in a relaxed state of mind, in a state of physical inactivity. Being idle, it is said, gives time to ruminate on a problem or new knowledge and thus find better and more uses/solutions.
If I were to draw a parallel, the inventor of fire probably didn't foresee all the uses that it could be put to. The most immediate use would be to generate warmth. It is said that man learned to use fire for cooking when a piece of meat fell into the flames and gave off a good aroma. The rest is history, as they say. :) :wink:
Just a thought regarding poverty; I recall my uncle telling me that the bestselling authors have written their best works early in their careers; very few write good stuff once they are famous. When I asked why, he said, "their first book and the second were written when the author was hungry," and thus the author had "intrinsic motivation" 8).
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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Thought i should see the movie for its melodious song, now i have a stronger reason to see it .
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hi mr hiren, that was really very nice of you to share this thought. i havenot seen the movie. it is not the movie but is applicable everywhere in all walks of life. thanks. lalatendu kanungo
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Hi!! Great messg. well smart eloboration ...seems u r creative mind.. think good.... wow i liked ur thought.. gr8 Would like to talk ever u want... Mili 9971677577
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Nice to see someone thinking just like me. I saw the movie over the weekend, and while watching it, I was thinking, "People who love perfection never make compromises. HR professionals should be perfectionists... the organization will never have to make compromises."
Liked your article.
Jenice Bhatia
From India, Bangalore
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Liked your article.
Jenice Bhatia
From India, Bangalore
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Hi Jenice,
You made an interesting statement: "While watching it, I was thinking, 'People who love perfection never make compromises, HR professionals should be perfectionists... the organization will never have to make compromises.'"
Some thoughts on this:
1) How would you define perfection?
2) Who would agree with this definition? Would you be able to get everyone (i.e. all human beings) to agree to the definition?
3) People create organizations, which create other things, including organizations.
4) What is the cost of perfection?
5) Why should HR professionals only be perfectionists? Aren't others capable? If others aren't capable, then the organization would still have to make compromises.
6) Is a perfectionist ever completely happy? My thought is that he/she would become bored because there would be nothing to work for - it would all come about perfectly :)
7) What is so "bad" about a compromise?
These questions are the basis on which a lot of human systems of education, business, R&D, etc., are based. I would like to have yours as well as other members' views on perfection.
Hiren - thanks again for starting this topic.
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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You made an interesting statement: "While watching it, I was thinking, 'People who love perfection never make compromises, HR professionals should be perfectionists... the organization will never have to make compromises.'"
Some thoughts on this:
1) How would you define perfection?
2) Who would agree with this definition? Would you be able to get everyone (i.e. all human beings) to agree to the definition?
3) People create organizations, which create other things, including organizations.
4) What is the cost of perfection?
5) Why should HR professionals only be perfectionists? Aren't others capable? If others aren't capable, then the organization would still have to make compromises.
6) Is a perfectionist ever completely happy? My thought is that he/she would become bored because there would be nothing to work for - it would all come about perfectly :)
7) What is so "bad" about a compromise?
These questions are the basis on which a lot of human systems of education, business, R&D, etc., are based. I would like to have yours as well as other members' views on perfection.
Hiren - thanks again for starting this topic.
Regards,
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Hiren,
When I looked at the topic, I thought it's interesting. When I looked at the article, I thought it's too long. But believe me, as I started reading it, I can definitely tell you that you did a great job. Keep it up.
Regards,
Payal Gade
From India, Pune
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When I looked at the topic, I thought it's interesting. When I looked at the article, I thought it's too long. But believe me, as I started reading it, I can definitely tell you that you did a great job. Keep it up.
Regards,
Payal Gade
From India, Pune
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:) Do watch the movie "NAYA DAUR" casting Dilip Kumar for more HR perspectives specifically team work and leadership :)
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren!
Good observation. Almost all of us watch movies, but many times we don't keep an eye on such issues. In a recent training session, an excerpt of Munna Bhai MBBS was shown as a motivating factor. Personally, I have seen the movie more than twice or thrice but had never seen it beyond a comedy movie.
Keep all of us who would be interested updated.
Regards, Swati.
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Good observation. Almost all of us watch movies, but many times we don't keep an eye on such issues. In a recent training session, an excerpt of Munna Bhai MBBS was shown as a motivating factor. Personally, I have seen the movie more than twice or thrice but had never seen it beyond a comedy movie.
Keep all of us who would be interested updated.
Regards, Swati.
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:) Do watch "NAYA DAUR" featuring Dilip Kumar for HR Perspectives specifically Teamwork and Leadership. :)
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Dear Hiren, We must appreciate your thoughts in putting up such a nice analysis for such a simple thing. It was very interesting & informative. Thanks, Rutayani
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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Ryan
About “How to remain idle”- that is called incubating the subconscious with the relevant knowledge and then let nature do the rest in idle or free times. Einstein got the best ideas while walking. What is relevant to our context is that first you have to be sure what exactly you want to do or what is your unique strength and then do something like that. Then, the chances of success are much better in my view.
There is a wonderful book I have been reading called “The greatest secret of success” by Mr Virender Kapoor who is on the HR committee of CII. It is a unique book by an Indian author to the best of my knowledge. The main theme of the book is passion quotient(PQ) and how square pegs in round holes can be avoided by determining Passion. It has very interesting examples and quotes both by Indian and foreign authors. The best I liked was maverick entrepreneur Richard Branson who is asked whether he let his heart overrule is head. He replied “All the time” which at least in his case is the secret of his success. Heart being more important than the head was also mentioned by the famous psychologist Segmund Freud(for major decisions) and is also mentioned in the Rig veda but that(to my mind) is in a particular context. In the ultimate analysis, most things are situational and it is better if the heart is balanced by the head which is grounded optimism
It is good that somebody from HR in India has written a book like this because mort career consultants I have interacted with on this issue behave as if I am “Alice in Wonderland”(or living in a fool's paradise) and that too on the most fundamental issue of right person for the right occupation.
Ryan- About the meat of piece falling in the fire- that is serendipity and there is a lateral thinking book by Paul Slaone which has a chapter devoted to that. Peter Drucker's "Innovation and Entreupreurship" is also good.
Ryan It is good that you mentioned writing. What you said is true to an extent when we look at Arundhati Roy who has not achieved anything after that book for which she won the booker prize. Opposite to that is the r example of Machiavelli who wrote “Don Quixote” after a lifetime of suffering. It depends on the profile of the writer. Being a writer myself, I had bumped into a young writer at one of my wife’s cousin brother’s office. That guy is into making TV serials. She gave an interesting insight” You are so lucky that you have reached middle age. You must have lots of experiences to write about”. Even a majority of characters of Hindi Cinema’s best film(best filmfare award for 50 years-1954-1994)) “Sholay” came from “ real life according to the book “The making of Sholay” .
In my last post, I went a little overboard on the love for work. As I said earlier, one has to keep the market profile in mind and since you mentioned writers, I must add this.. Mr Kapoor deserves handsome compliments because in several parts of the books he has given emphasis on marketable services instead of some “gurus” who over talk and only talk about dreaming and dreaming big. For instance Shashi Tharoor, India’s representative at the United Nations said “A full time writer is a rare breed anywhere in the world”.My mother-in-law told me about some Jain Bhajan singer who lived in penury throughout lifetime but his books began selling like hotcakes after his death. Reminds you of Shakespeare, Painter Vincent Van goh and Munshi Premchand who had the same experience.
Fortunately, we have better transparency now with the internet and I know someone in Delhi who calls himself “Working poet” (earning money out of poetry) who is trying to popularize poetry to enable poets to make a living out of that. If you google for “working poet”, you will find many who have written poems about their misery in the wrong occupation.
So success and satisfaction depend on what your dream is- one cannot have over rosy sweeping generalizations which some people who conduct workshops make without bothering about the specific personal or professional profile of people:-
Galat kaam se bada koi nahi hai gum
Sahi kaam ki khushi nahi hai kum
Khushi ke saath safalta chaahte hai hum
Par kuch logo ke bhaagya main hoti hai cheeni kum
From India, New Delhi
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About “How to remain idle”- that is called incubating the subconscious with the relevant knowledge and then let nature do the rest in idle or free times. Einstein got the best ideas while walking. What is relevant to our context is that first you have to be sure what exactly you want to do or what is your unique strength and then do something like that. Then, the chances of success are much better in my view.
There is a wonderful book I have been reading called “The greatest secret of success” by Mr Virender Kapoor who is on the HR committee of CII. It is a unique book by an Indian author to the best of my knowledge. The main theme of the book is passion quotient(PQ) and how square pegs in round holes can be avoided by determining Passion. It has very interesting examples and quotes both by Indian and foreign authors. The best I liked was maverick entrepreneur Richard Branson who is asked whether he let his heart overrule is head. He replied “All the time” which at least in his case is the secret of his success. Heart being more important than the head was also mentioned by the famous psychologist Segmund Freud(for major decisions) and is also mentioned in the Rig veda but that(to my mind) is in a particular context. In the ultimate analysis, most things are situational and it is better if the heart is balanced by the head which is grounded optimism
It is good that somebody from HR in India has written a book like this because mort career consultants I have interacted with on this issue behave as if I am “Alice in Wonderland”(or living in a fool's paradise) and that too on the most fundamental issue of right person for the right occupation.
Ryan- About the meat of piece falling in the fire- that is serendipity and there is a lateral thinking book by Paul Slaone which has a chapter devoted to that. Peter Drucker's "Innovation and Entreupreurship" is also good.
Ryan It is good that you mentioned writing. What you said is true to an extent when we look at Arundhati Roy who has not achieved anything after that book for which she won the booker prize. Opposite to that is the r example of Machiavelli who wrote “Don Quixote” after a lifetime of suffering. It depends on the profile of the writer. Being a writer myself, I had bumped into a young writer at one of my wife’s cousin brother’s office. That guy is into making TV serials. She gave an interesting insight” You are so lucky that you have reached middle age. You must have lots of experiences to write about”. Even a majority of characters of Hindi Cinema’s best film(best filmfare award for 50 years-1954-1994)) “Sholay” came from “ real life according to the book “The making of Sholay” .
In my last post, I went a little overboard on the love for work. As I said earlier, one has to keep the market profile in mind and since you mentioned writers, I must add this.. Mr Kapoor deserves handsome compliments because in several parts of the books he has given emphasis on marketable services instead of some “gurus” who over talk and only talk about dreaming and dreaming big. For instance Shashi Tharoor, India’s representative at the United Nations said “A full time writer is a rare breed anywhere in the world”.My mother-in-law told me about some Jain Bhajan singer who lived in penury throughout lifetime but his books began selling like hotcakes after his death. Reminds you of Shakespeare, Painter Vincent Van goh and Munshi Premchand who had the same experience.
Fortunately, we have better transparency now with the internet and I know someone in Delhi who calls himself “Working poet” (earning money out of poetry) who is trying to popularize poetry to enable poets to make a living out of that. If you google for “working poet”, you will find many who have written poems about their misery in the wrong occupation.
So success and satisfaction depend on what your dream is- one cannot have over rosy sweeping generalizations which some people who conduct workshops make without bothering about the specific personal or professional profile of people:-
Galat kaam se bada koi nahi hai gum
Sahi kaam ki khushi nahi hai kum
Khushi ke saath safalta chaahte hai hum
Par kuch logo ke bhaagya main hoti hai cheeni kum
From India, New Delhi
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The other post became too long because of Mr Kapoor's books. This also deserves a mention:-
Janice and Ryan- About perfection, I much mention Osho “ The person who wants to be a perfectionist is a neurotic”. It takes some years of management experience to realize this in letter and spirit Einstein said at the end of his life, “I was only collecting pebbles on the sea shore”. Science is objective and HR is subjective and in subjective matters, perfection is much more difficult to achieve. From a practical perspective- forget about perfection, .if I put Morgan and Banks as the benchmark, has any Indian HRD person achieved what they have achieved by putting the right people in the right jobs? I would even call them happiness managers.
Kannik Khanna has mentioned a very good movie-Naya Daur". Leadership and Teamwork apart, it is a negative example of what short sighted industrialization can do. If you look at the big picture, it is the opposite of the “Capitalist mind with a socialist heart” philosophy which both the Infosys chairman Mr Narayanmurthy and Dhirubhai Ambani followed. Even our honorable Prime minister, Mr Manmohan Singh advised just two days back advised to check conspicuous consumption. There are so many books like “The world is Flat” which warn of dire consequences because of extreme disparity of income. So the "Naya Daur" that we are experiencing in terms of economic boom these days could turn out to be counterproductive- Naye Daur pe karo Gaur.
Swatiss has also mentioned a very good movie-Munnabhai MBBS. Even the British medical council liked that movie and it was extremely popular in Pakistan. In that context, the movie was an outstanding HR exercise in both real and reel life. It also shows that while one can talk about HR concepts, it was Munnabhai who had the functional talent. of bonding with people. The great intellectual J.krishnamurthy said that thought has limitation but love has no limitation.
I read somewhere that even Lage Raho Munnabhai endeared Gandhiji to more young people than any academician has been able to achieve. HR is also about connecting with people and from that perspective, nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma(In politics).
From India, New Delhi
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Janice and Ryan- About perfection, I much mention Osho “ The person who wants to be a perfectionist is a neurotic”. It takes some years of management experience to realize this in letter and spirit Einstein said at the end of his life, “I was only collecting pebbles on the sea shore”. Science is objective and HR is subjective and in subjective matters, perfection is much more difficult to achieve. From a practical perspective- forget about perfection, .if I put Morgan and Banks as the benchmark, has any Indian HRD person achieved what they have achieved by putting the right people in the right jobs? I would even call them happiness managers.
Kannik Khanna has mentioned a very good movie-Naya Daur". Leadership and Teamwork apart, it is a negative example of what short sighted industrialization can do. If you look at the big picture, it is the opposite of the “Capitalist mind with a socialist heart” philosophy which both the Infosys chairman Mr Narayanmurthy and Dhirubhai Ambani followed. Even our honorable Prime minister, Mr Manmohan Singh advised just two days back advised to check conspicuous consumption. There are so many books like “The world is Flat” which warn of dire consequences because of extreme disparity of income. So the "Naya Daur" that we are experiencing in terms of economic boom these days could turn out to be counterproductive- Naye Daur pe karo Gaur.
Swatiss has also mentioned a very good movie-Munnabhai MBBS. Even the British medical council liked that movie and it was extremely popular in Pakistan. In that context, the movie was an outstanding HR exercise in both real and reel life. It also shows that while one can talk about HR concepts, it was Munnabhai who had the functional talent. of bonding with people. The great intellectual J.krishnamurthy said that thought has limitation but love has no limitation.
I read somewhere that even Lage Raho Munnabhai endeared Gandhiji to more young people than any academician has been able to achieve. HR is also about connecting with people and from that perspective, nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma(In politics).
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
I will definitely pick up Mr. Kapoor's book. It sounds very interesting from your description.
You mentioned, "nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma (in politics)."
That's true - because he was never in politics per se. His passion was in improving the lot of our nation and its people. He wasn't really concerned with politics, but was drawn into it by politicians. He and Mother Teresa and others like them had the willingness to help others at whatever cost, in the best way they could. Their philosophy was "I want to help, so either join me in helping others or get out of my way so that I can help others." A true hallmark of service orientation!
There was also a response from the public to the Prime Minister's message for CEOs to reduce their packages. They have asked the PM to get the ministers to reduce their gains which are running into undisclosed crores before asking CEOs to do so. Cases in point being the property owned by them (politicians) through not so "above board" means.
For me, the best writer on innovation is Edward de Bono. His ideas are a feast for the mind!
A person willing to share new ideas or willing to look for new alternatives is worth more to me than all the academics in the world.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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I will definitely pick up Mr. Kapoor's book. It sounds very interesting from your description.
You mentioned, "nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma (in politics)."
That's true - because he was never in politics per se. His passion was in improving the lot of our nation and its people. He wasn't really concerned with politics, but was drawn into it by politicians. He and Mother Teresa and others like them had the willingness to help others at whatever cost, in the best way they could. Their philosophy was "I want to help, so either join me in helping others or get out of my way so that I can help others." A true hallmark of service orientation!
There was also a response from the public to the Prime Minister's message for CEOs to reduce their packages. They have asked the PM to get the ministers to reduce their gains which are running into undisclosed crores before asking CEOs to do so. Cases in point being the property owned by them (politicians) through not so "above board" means.
For me, the best writer on innovation is Edward de Bono. His ideas are a feast for the mind!
A person willing to share new ideas or willing to look for new alternatives is worth more to me than all the academics in the world.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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Mother Teresa’s example is there in Mr Kapoor’s book
As for Gandhji, since you have specifically mentioned him, these are his views on the subject :- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/02/06/hello-world/
Yesterday, I received a reply from Edward de Bono’s office that a book called Re think has examples but is published by an Australian firm. Are you aware of any such book in India?
Before we wind up this discussion, a few more film industry examples. Nagesh kuknoor, the director of films like Hyderabad Blues, Iqbaal and Dor is a chemical engineer but shifted to films to follow his heart. In that wonderful movie Iqbal there is a dialogue by Naseerudin Shah pleading Iqbal’s father to let him play cricket. Translated, it goes something like this “ You should thank god that your son knows that he wants to play cricket. There are so many people in this world who do not know what their purpose in life is”. Both Amitabh Bachchan and Dale Carnegie said the same thing in real life.
Apart from Amitabh Bachchan who made the switch to corporate world, Chartered accountants Shekhar Kapur and Abhijeet became director and singer, respectively. Music composers A R Rehman and Shanker shifted from civil and software engineering, respectively. There maybe other examples but in my view, the restless urge in artists is more.
Earlier in some posts. some people have said that I had drawn a good comparison to what Tabu said in the film. Actually, what Karan Johar, Shahrukh Khan and Sanjay leela Bhansali said in the subject in real life is far more interesting. That apart, this post also has views of several American consultants. They are there in the post Movie “Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna and HR Management” under Articles by Forum Member
From India, New Delhi
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As for Gandhji, since you have specifically mentioned him, these are his views on the subject :- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/02/06/hello-world/
Yesterday, I received a reply from Edward de Bono’s office that a book called Re think has examples but is published by an Australian firm. Are you aware of any such book in India?
Before we wind up this discussion, a few more film industry examples. Nagesh kuknoor, the director of films like Hyderabad Blues, Iqbaal and Dor is a chemical engineer but shifted to films to follow his heart. In that wonderful movie Iqbal there is a dialogue by Naseerudin Shah pleading Iqbal’s father to let him play cricket. Translated, it goes something like this “ You should thank god that your son knows that he wants to play cricket. There are so many people in this world who do not know what their purpose in life is”. Both Amitabh Bachchan and Dale Carnegie said the same thing in real life.
Apart from Amitabh Bachchan who made the switch to corporate world, Chartered accountants Shekhar Kapur and Abhijeet became director and singer, respectively. Music composers A R Rehman and Shanker shifted from civil and software engineering, respectively. There maybe other examples but in my view, the restless urge in artists is more.
Earlier in some posts. some people have said that I had drawn a good comparison to what Tabu said in the film. Actually, what Karan Johar, Shahrukh Khan and Sanjay leela Bhansali said in the subject in real life is far more interesting. That apart, this post also has views of several American consultants. They are there in the post Movie “Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna and HR Management” under Articles by Forum Member
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
I finally saw this movie.
I agree with you on your statement that one who loves and is passionate about their job can speak like this.
From an HR perspective, I find the character of Mr. Bachan's to be close to the "Boss from Hell" type. At certain times, I felt that the sarcasm was overdone to the point of being sarcastic just for the sake of it. I can speak on this because I am known to have a very sarcastic vocabulary, and I enjoy sarcasm and vitriol a lot, but you can't have every sentence being a sarcastic retort, no matter how funny it is. It irritates and aggravates all those around. In the case of the movie, Tabu's character was able to cut him down using truth and his own self-respect.
Sarcasm generally cuts down the other person. From a boss-subordinate viewpoint, very few subordinates would be able to retort to a sarcastic manager, not because they can't, but because they are afraid for their jobs - and thereby their livelihood. I don't think too many people would be comfortable working under a person like this. People leave bosses like these (as we discussed earlier).
From an HR perspective - I personally would never give an over-sarcastic manager more than a good rating on his appraisal, even if he achieved all his targets. He would be a nightmare to recruit for, since his team would possibly have the highest attrition. Given how extra sensitive people are today, his team would be extremely dissatisfied with him.
For example, some years ago, I cleared an interview and I was offered no change in designation, role, and a 2% increase in salary. The travel distance was also going to be the same. AND I was expected to join this organization double quick. When I happened to check around, I was told that "that manager is an idiot and rude to folks... nobody likes him here, best you don't join since you will report directly to him." You can guess that I didn't join there.
The movie was overall nice and dealt with some interesting and controversial (in the Indian scenario) topics. It's definitely worth a look.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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I finally saw this movie.
I agree with you on your statement that one who loves and is passionate about their job can speak like this.
From an HR perspective, I find the character of Mr. Bachan's to be close to the "Boss from Hell" type. At certain times, I felt that the sarcasm was overdone to the point of being sarcastic just for the sake of it. I can speak on this because I am known to have a very sarcastic vocabulary, and I enjoy sarcasm and vitriol a lot, but you can't have every sentence being a sarcastic retort, no matter how funny it is. It irritates and aggravates all those around. In the case of the movie, Tabu's character was able to cut him down using truth and his own self-respect.
Sarcasm generally cuts down the other person. From a boss-subordinate viewpoint, very few subordinates would be able to retort to a sarcastic manager, not because they can't, but because they are afraid for their jobs - and thereby their livelihood. I don't think too many people would be comfortable working under a person like this. People leave bosses like these (as we discussed earlier).
From an HR perspective - I personally would never give an over-sarcastic manager more than a good rating on his appraisal, even if he achieved all his targets. He would be a nightmare to recruit for, since his team would possibly have the highest attrition. Given how extra sensitive people are today, his team would be extremely dissatisfied with him.
For example, some years ago, I cleared an interview and I was offered no change in designation, role, and a 2% increase in salary. The travel distance was also going to be the same. AND I was expected to join this organization double quick. When I happened to check around, I was told that "that manager is an idiot and rude to folks... nobody likes him here, best you don't join since you will report directly to him." You can guess that I didn't join there.
The movie was overall nice and dealt with some interesting and controversial (in the Indian scenario) topics. It's definitely worth a look.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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Ryan, you are right about Bachchan's character. It would indeed be quite tough to work under a boss like that.
I had commented on Tabu's remarks because of what Dale Carnegie said about the right occupation and the right spouse being the two most important things in one's life.
Before we round off the discussion, let us look at some of the comments of what Morgan and Banks have to say in their wonderful book "Achieving your dream career":
"If you are not passionate about what you are doing, do something else."
"Our experience has shown that money is not a sign but a consequence of success. If you are happy with what you are doing, you are bound to do it well and the rewards will flow. It is a virtuous circle."
"Talking in the context of Olympic champions, they said that they must have a deep love for what they are doing and the awards will follow due to passion and performance."
"The real test comes on the day when you realize that you can afford not to jump out of bed and head off to work. But you happily do it anyway because you realize that the life and the work you love have nothing to do with a living."
It takes time, experience, and resources to make one's life's passion one's life's work.
There are several such quotes, and the book is full of examples of case studies where people have been placed in professions that are completely different from what they were doing - doctor to sportswriter, for instance.
I wonder when the Indian career consultants will ever talk like this. Except for Mr. Kapoor who I mentioned earlier, all this seems Greek to them.
From India, New Delhi
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I had commented on Tabu's remarks because of what Dale Carnegie said about the right occupation and the right spouse being the two most important things in one's life.
Before we round off the discussion, let us look at some of the comments of what Morgan and Banks have to say in their wonderful book "Achieving your dream career":
"If you are not passionate about what you are doing, do something else."
"Our experience has shown that money is not a sign but a consequence of success. If you are happy with what you are doing, you are bound to do it well and the rewards will flow. It is a virtuous circle."
"Talking in the context of Olympic champions, they said that they must have a deep love for what they are doing and the awards will follow due to passion and performance."
"The real test comes on the day when you realize that you can afford not to jump out of bed and head off to work. But you happily do it anyway because you realize that the life and the work you love have nothing to do with a living."
It takes time, experience, and resources to make one's life's passion one's life's work.
There are several such quotes, and the book is full of examples of case studies where people have been placed in professions that are completely different from what they were doing - doctor to sportswriter, for instance.
I wonder when the Indian career consultants will ever talk like this. Except for Mr. Kapoor who I mentioned earlier, all this seems Greek to them.
From India, New Delhi
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I was in Bombay about a week back for 3-4 days. I got in touch with Ryan but it was not possible to meet because of other commitments. While in Bombay, I mentioned our chat to my sister-in-law- She said that the director of Cheeni Kum had himself said that the movie was a labor of love and even if one person watched and appreciated it, he would consider it worth the effort.
I also read retail King(Pantaloon). Kishore Biyani’s book “It happened in India” . Normally one associates the word passion with people like Bill Gates, Thomas Edison or Henri Ford who were passionate for and tried to achieve excellence in a particular product or area. I always used to wonder what possible passion could a trader have but the word passion has appeared at four five different places in the book. I was also surprised to read what Biyani had to say on HR “ I first look at a person and than think of a job for him”. It reminded me of Henri Ford’s “ I hire a man, not his history”. It is a refreshing change that blindly judging people by degrees.
My article “Soul of a profession” also got published in the June issue of the HR magazine “Management Compass” where the example of actor Balraj Sahni mentioned earlier on this post is given:-
http://wplay.wordpress.com/2007/07/0...-a-profession/
From India, New Delhi
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I also read retail King(Pantaloon). Kishore Biyani’s book “It happened in India” . Normally one associates the word passion with people like Bill Gates, Thomas Edison or Henri Ford who were passionate for and tried to achieve excellence in a particular product or area. I always used to wonder what possible passion could a trader have but the word passion has appeared at four five different places in the book. I was also surprised to read what Biyani had to say on HR “ I first look at a person and than think of a job for him”. It reminded me of Henri Ford’s “ I hire a man, not his history”. It is a refreshing change that blindly judging people by degrees.
My article “Soul of a profession” also got published in the June issue of the HR magazine “Management Compass” where the example of actor Balraj Sahni mentioned earlier on this post is given:-
http://wplay.wordpress.com/2007/07/0...-a-profession/
From India, New Delhi
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Hi Hiren,
Somehow I have missed out on this post for quite some time. I think it's because it was posted in the Forum members. After a 10-year gap, I have watched the movies you mentioned, i.e., Ta Ra Rum Pum and Cheeni Kum. In fact, both films convey messages about management principles. As mentioned, the dialogues align with HRM principles. Another dialogue by Tabu, when the cook is terminated by Bachan, emphasizes that when appreciation comes due to good food, it is for Bachan, and criticism also belongs to Bachan and not to the person who prepared the food. Top management should consider this before blaming their subordinates for mistakes.
I feel I can provide more feedback on this. I will analyze the HRM principles and concepts in reference to the movie Ta Ra Rum Pum and post it here.
Regards, Umesh S.
From India, Bangalore
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Somehow I have missed out on this post for quite some time. I think it's because it was posted in the Forum members. After a 10-year gap, I have watched the movies you mentioned, i.e., Ta Ra Rum Pum and Cheeni Kum. In fact, both films convey messages about management principles. As mentioned, the dialogues align with HRM principles. Another dialogue by Tabu, when the cook is terminated by Bachan, emphasizes that when appreciation comes due to good food, it is for Bachan, and criticism also belongs to Bachan and not to the person who prepared the food. Top management should consider this before blaming their subordinates for mistakes.
I feel I can provide more feedback on this. I will analyze the HRM principles and concepts in reference to the movie Ta Ra Rum Pum and post it here.
Regards, Umesh S.
From India, Bangalore
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Fine value additions you have made, Umesh. In reality, HR is everywhere because people are everywhere, and one cannot escape man management. What you have said also reminded me of something else - I read some article called "Management lessons from Big B" in Hindustan Times Mint magazine in Bombay. That article was all about how there was an overemphasis on youth in management and how people who had just become MBAs were asked to manage people where they could barely manage themselves. The article said that even 29 was considered to be old and how ridiculous that was. Citing Mr. Bachchan, the article said that the ideal blend should be youth and experience. God alone knows where the blind emphasis on youth is going to take us. Today in the Delhi Times, there was a whole article on how young people had turned to robbing because their talents did not meet their aspirations, and there seems to be a blind rush for brands which seem to give them an exalted identity.
This is what happens when there are no senior managers who can be good mentors. It can prove to be a one-way street to hell.
From India, New Delhi
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This is what happens when there are no senior managers who can be good mentors. It can prove to be a one-way street to hell.
From India, New Delhi
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