Dear Folks,
Am sharing this article by Lalit from IIM - Kozhikode which was published in news magazine for your reference.
Cheerio
Rajat
The existing MBA curriculum tends to compartmentalize learning into distinct divisions like marketing, finance, HR, operations or strategy, which is antagonistic to real life business situations. Real life business problems don't appear in such distinct categories but appear as interplay of various disciplines having implications cutting across these functions. Moreover, the current system of bifurcation of management courses into trimester/semester give the students a piecemeal picture of the whole management practices and they fail to see the linkages among various courses taught. Thus it never crosses in an average student's mind that pricing methodology learnt in marketing management can be linked to microeconomics to determine appropriate mark-up price or productivity improvement measures learnt in operations management can be linked to organization structure learnt in organization behavior or business strategy learnt in strategic management. The ‘big picture' or the macro view gets lost somewhere in the mélange of so many functional silos and student fails to develop a holistic view.
This shortcoming can be taken care of by having one year MBA structured as intermix of basic courses in finance, marketing, systems, operations, HR & OB.
The whole course should be structured as one continuous year of learning rather than broken into semester/trimester, which is a piecemeal approach and takes away the continuity in learning. The cases discussed should involve synthesis of ideas and concepts from all the above mentioned disciplines which can give students a feel for integrative thinking.
I reiterate MBA should be only one year course as this makes the learning more effective (fast paced environment spurs on students to perform) and also is a better value proposition for people who have left jobs to pursue academics. The students admitted must be high achievers (to be able to cope up with the work load) having minimum 3 yrs of work experience (the rationale being one doesn't get to do anything concrete in first 1 or 2 yrs in an organization) so as to be able to relate the theoretical perspectives with experiential learning.
MBA is an ‘action' course rather than a passive one. You can't teach a person to swim by imparting him wisdom in the classroom. But if the person has gotten himself wet a few times in the swimming pool and splayed his legs and hands, he will be able to relate and understand the swimming methods taught. Similarly a person with no work experience can't appreciate the theoretical underpinnings of the practical business situations, simply because he hasn't ‘tasted the water'.
The objective of MBA should be to impart intellectual versatility and rigor in thinking to the students rather than making a person specialist in one area (which he can always pick up later on in his career, depending on his interests and realistic judgment of his capability). The specialization system should be done away with, as leaders need to be ‘generalists' with understanding of all aspects of business. Also it is difficult to pack specialization, which anyway doesn't make much sense, in one year course.
Moreover, the curriculum should be peppered with readings in sociology, philosophy, economics and other humanities to provide depth in understanding and ability to think through a situation from different perspectives. Adequate stress must be laid on the personal development of the individual and to hone his soft skills like communication, leadership and negotiation skills by role plays, presentations, etc. The course should stress on moving from analysis to action; MBA, in fact, should become a byword for Managing Business Actions.
Such curriculum demands intellectual vigor and continuous peak effort on the part of the students to undergo this kind of fast paced learning. The moot question is - are Indian students ready to take the plunge? The answer seems to be yes as is proven by the success of ISB.
Lalit kumarPGP(2002-2004)
IIM Kozhikode
From India, Pune
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108Am sharing this article by Lalit from IIM - Kozhikode which was published in news magazine for your reference.
Cheerio
Rajat
The existing MBA curriculum tends to compartmentalize learning into distinct divisions like marketing, finance, HR, operations or strategy, which is antagonistic to real life business situations. Real life business problems don't appear in such distinct categories but appear as interplay of various disciplines having implications cutting across these functions. Moreover, the current system of bifurcation of management courses into trimester/semester give the students a piecemeal picture of the whole management practices and they fail to see the linkages among various courses taught. Thus it never crosses in an average student's mind that pricing methodology learnt in marketing management can be linked to microeconomics to determine appropriate mark-up price or productivity improvement measures learnt in operations management can be linked to organization structure learnt in organization behavior or business strategy learnt in strategic management. The ‘big picture' or the macro view gets lost somewhere in the mélange of so many functional silos and student fails to develop a holistic view.
This shortcoming can be taken care of by having one year MBA structured as intermix of basic courses in finance, marketing, systems, operations, HR & OB.
The whole course should be structured as one continuous year of learning rather than broken into semester/trimester, which is a piecemeal approach and takes away the continuity in learning. The cases discussed should involve synthesis of ideas and concepts from all the above mentioned disciplines which can give students a feel for integrative thinking.
I reiterate MBA should be only one year course as this makes the learning more effective (fast paced environment spurs on students to perform) and also is a better value proposition for people who have left jobs to pursue academics. The students admitted must be high achievers (to be able to cope up with the work load) having minimum 3 yrs of work experience (the rationale being one doesn't get to do anything concrete in first 1 or 2 yrs in an organization) so as to be able to relate the theoretical perspectives with experiential learning.
MBA is an ‘action' course rather than a passive one. You can't teach a person to swim by imparting him wisdom in the classroom. But if the person has gotten himself wet a few times in the swimming pool and splayed his legs and hands, he will be able to relate and understand the swimming methods taught. Similarly a person with no work experience can't appreciate the theoretical underpinnings of the practical business situations, simply because he hasn't ‘tasted the water'.
The objective of MBA should be to impart intellectual versatility and rigor in thinking to the students rather than making a person specialist in one area (which he can always pick up later on in his career, depending on his interests and realistic judgment of his capability). The specialization system should be done away with, as leaders need to be ‘generalists' with understanding of all aspects of business. Also it is difficult to pack specialization, which anyway doesn't make much sense, in one year course.
Moreover, the curriculum should be peppered with readings in sociology, philosophy, economics and other humanities to provide depth in understanding and ability to think through a situation from different perspectives. Adequate stress must be laid on the personal development of the individual and to hone his soft skills like communication, leadership and negotiation skills by role plays, presentations, etc. The course should stress on moving from analysis to action; MBA, in fact, should become a byword for Managing Business Actions.
Such curriculum demands intellectual vigor and continuous peak effort on the part of the students to undergo this kind of fast paced learning. The moot question is - are Indian students ready to take the plunge? The answer seems to be yes as is proven by the success of ISB.
Lalit kumarPGP(2002-2004)
IIM Kozhikode
From India, Pune
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This is excellent - a school for leaders, not just businesspeople. It would be interesting for some firm - or a syndicate of firms - to sponsor the students, allowing them access to thought leaders in various countries. This would add to the value of the year and enhance the network of each participant.
You ought to get a backer to fund the creation of just such a global school.
Mike
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You ought to get a backer to fund the creation of just such a global school.
Mike
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The problem is not how we educate our managers, the problem is how we hire our managers. Too many hiring managers believe that an MBA means the holder will be a successful manager, especially if the MBA is from a top business school. Employers would be wiser to hire the right people to be their managers and then educate them as needed.
From United States, Chelsea
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From United States, Chelsea
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The only caveat here is that corporations do a spotty job of training their people. A two-day seminar, rushed and fairly tame, is not enough time or content to serve as more than a kind of lip service to real development. When companies begin to quantify the value of top-notch, extensive training, then they'll get value out of the investment.
Then again, if training is done by in-house employees, the real give and take of a seminar might be diluted. The fear of retribution is somehow always there, and it detracts from learning and growing.
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Then again, if training is done by in-house employees, the real give and take of a seminar might be diluted. The fear of retribution is somehow always there, and it detracts from learning and growing.
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To read a longer version of my thoughts, stop by my articles web page and read article 21 "Teaching Business Managers the Wrong Way." This article comments on Robert Weis's May 16, 2004, Boston Globe article about Professor Mintzberg's criticism of how managers are educated.
<link no longer exists - removed>
From United States, Chelsea
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From United States, Chelsea
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Hey Lalit,
It's good to rethink an MBA, but I think it may not be as effective because many pursue an MBA after their undergraduate studies without gaining work experience. That's the problem. However, your reconsideration is indeed a good one.
Manie
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It's good to rethink an MBA, but I think it may not be as effective because many pursue an MBA after their undergraduate studies without gaining work experience. That's the problem. However, your reconsideration is indeed a good one.
Manie
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Hi Lalit,
I came across your article on Rethinking MBA, and it was good, but there aren't many opportunities in India for a fresh graduate. The available options are mainly in call centers or in very routine clerical jobs. Most organizations require a postgraduate degree. What do you think about these prospects for freshers? How will they cope? Do you have any suggestions?
Cheers,
Gunjan
From India, Mumbai
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I came across your article on Rethinking MBA, and it was good, but there aren't many opportunities in India for a fresh graduate. The available options are mainly in call centers or in very routine clerical jobs. Most organizations require a postgraduate degree. What do you think about these prospects for freshers? How will they cope? Do you have any suggestions?
Cheers,
Gunjan
From India, Mumbai
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MBA RETHINKING
The MBA program has become a money-spinner, and universities are churning out QUANTITY and not QUALITY.
Employers' perception of an MBA graduate is that he/she should know everything in their sphere of specialization.
It is not what is being taught that is a problem, but how it is being taught.
It is a question of how we can make the learning more effective and implementable.
So, it is the learning outcome and learning effectiveness that count.
It really does not matter whether it is 18 months or 24 months. 12 months is too short to learn, digest, or understand the organization and business management.
My suggestions are:
1. Students entering MBA should take an aptitude test and seek career counseling/second opinion on their choice.
2. Students should have 2 years of working experience before entering an MBA course.
3. In the first year of MBA, the focus should be on:
- TOTAL organization operation
- how each function operates
- how the functions integrate for common results
- how the function operators interact
- macro understanding of the organization
This one-year program should have regular tests and continual feedback on the understanding of the concepts.
4. In the second year, based on the aptitude test, the focus should be on the special subject, whether it is marketing, supply chain, or HR.
Currently, students learn a lot of theory but lack the implementation and its impact on the organization.
To complete the learning outcome and learning effectiveness, during the second year, the students must work closely with a local company and learn the real-life implementation.
The real learning, the difference between theory and implementation, is the INTERACTIVENESS with the people within the organization functions, and managing the internal/external forces.
This is the area where fresh MBAs fail and struggle to come to grips with the implementation of their knowledge.
Regards,
LEO LINGHAM
From India, Mumbai
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The MBA program has become a money-spinner, and universities are churning out QUANTITY and not QUALITY.
Employers' perception of an MBA graduate is that he/she should know everything in their sphere of specialization.
It is not what is being taught that is a problem, but how it is being taught.
It is a question of how we can make the learning more effective and implementable.
So, it is the learning outcome and learning effectiveness that count.
It really does not matter whether it is 18 months or 24 months. 12 months is too short to learn, digest, or understand the organization and business management.
My suggestions are:
1. Students entering MBA should take an aptitude test and seek career counseling/second opinion on their choice.
2. Students should have 2 years of working experience before entering an MBA course.
3. In the first year of MBA, the focus should be on:
- TOTAL organization operation
- how each function operates
- how the functions integrate for common results
- how the function operators interact
- macro understanding of the organization
This one-year program should have regular tests and continual feedback on the understanding of the concepts.
4. In the second year, based on the aptitude test, the focus should be on the special subject, whether it is marketing, supply chain, or HR.
Currently, students learn a lot of theory but lack the implementation and its impact on the organization.
To complete the learning outcome and learning effectiveness, during the second year, the students must work closely with a local company and learn the real-life implementation.
The real learning, the difference between theory and implementation, is the INTERACTIVENESS with the people within the organization functions, and managing the internal/external forces.
This is the area where fresh MBAs fail and struggle to come to grips with the implementation of their knowledge.
Regards,
LEO LINGHAM
From India, Mumbai
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Greetings, all.
As a full Professor for the last five years teaching MBA and PhD students, and as Managing Director of a Consultancy with allied Consultants around the world, may I share a few thoughts? Some of you will agree, and some of you will disagree, but many of you may find value in this post.
The overriding reason I started teaching arose when I was asked by a CEO of a Fortune 1000 Corporation to meet with and assess a new group of graduated MBAs with degrees from top schools, ostensibly for placement into a decentralized management program the company was embracing—and which I had created. It was a perfect option—I wrote the script, now I could pick the players. Who would say no?
Guess what? I could not—from a business perspective—endorse the hiring of any of them.
Oh, they knew all the newest and latest buzzwords, and they knew how to present themselves in a business discussion, and how to dress appropriately, when to smile, how to be culturally correct, and what fork to use for a luncheon salad—but they had little or no knowledge of the applicable, functioning world of business. Social skills and communication are important, but don't get you top positions or offer best opportunities.
Having gone through an Advanced Education program myself, I believed I knew exactly why this was the case. History has proven me correct.
Oftentimes, Professors and Advisors at B-Schools teach theory and expect the student to learn application from case studies. Graduate students are tempted to learn only exactly what they need to get by, and no more.
The age of questions and study and true learning of information across a range of disciplines—to better prepare for the true opportunities which await—is limited, I'm afraid.
So often, we are taught to only do what we must to get by. That's a truly sad commentary.
What I discovered from these Major B-School MBAs was a lack of knowledge of P&L dynamics; I learned very little about how they viewed HRM or HRD—and few could clearly explain the distinction. I was unable to get them to explain key points in finance; and although they knew the critical words—they were at a loss to explain exactly what the words meant.
If I had asked them to write a 500-word paper on their views of business trends over the past 50 years, they might have been able to discuss major trends, but if they were injected into an entrepreneurial situation running a business, they would have quickly found out that on the week you can't make the payroll—your employees don't care what Adam Smith said in The Wealth of Nations. All they care about is getting paid.
I must agree that if a person who does not know how to swim is thrown into a pool in water over his/her head, he/she will flail—in an attempt to save himself. Would it not be more productive and more applicable if he/she were taught the rudimentary guidelines of swimming first, rather than when he/she is drowning? And once taught those rudimentary guidelines, taught how to apply them properly?
I'm a firm believer that learning, tempered with experience, offers the most successful MBA and PhD candidates...and that's speaking from serving as Professor and Advisor to over 285 of them over the past five years or so.
My best advice is to study as much as you want, learn as much as you can—and practice those things which you study and learn. Even owning and/or managing a small business teaches principles best learned outside theory and school. Books are wonderful resources, but there's no substitute for experience.
This always leads to the argument, "But I have a graduate degree. Why can't I get a job?"
My friends, seize upon the best business opportunity—one that offers you the experience you need for your own personal "seasoning." Your learning and knowledge will propel you into the forefront of the business, and you will find yourself quickly learning that responsibility will generally be delegated when you demonstrate your ability to accept it.
Recent worldwide studies have shown that an MBA will change jobs seven times over his/her lifetime. Be certain that your degrees do not outpace your applied knowledge and the applicability of the learning you take away from your degree program.
Alan Guinn, Managing Director
The Guinn Consultancy Group, Inc.
From United States, Bluff City
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As a full Professor for the last five years teaching MBA and PhD students, and as Managing Director of a Consultancy with allied Consultants around the world, may I share a few thoughts? Some of you will agree, and some of you will disagree, but many of you may find value in this post.
The overriding reason I started teaching arose when I was asked by a CEO of a Fortune 1000 Corporation to meet with and assess a new group of graduated MBAs with degrees from top schools, ostensibly for placement into a decentralized management program the company was embracing—and which I had created. It was a perfect option—I wrote the script, now I could pick the players. Who would say no?
Guess what? I could not—from a business perspective—endorse the hiring of any of them.
Oh, they knew all the newest and latest buzzwords, and they knew how to present themselves in a business discussion, and how to dress appropriately, when to smile, how to be culturally correct, and what fork to use for a luncheon salad—but they had little or no knowledge of the applicable, functioning world of business. Social skills and communication are important, but don't get you top positions or offer best opportunities.
Having gone through an Advanced Education program myself, I believed I knew exactly why this was the case. History has proven me correct.
Oftentimes, Professors and Advisors at B-Schools teach theory and expect the student to learn application from case studies. Graduate students are tempted to learn only exactly what they need to get by, and no more.
The age of questions and study and true learning of information across a range of disciplines—to better prepare for the true opportunities which await—is limited, I'm afraid.
So often, we are taught to only do what we must to get by. That's a truly sad commentary.
What I discovered from these Major B-School MBAs was a lack of knowledge of P&L dynamics; I learned very little about how they viewed HRM or HRD—and few could clearly explain the distinction. I was unable to get them to explain key points in finance; and although they knew the critical words—they were at a loss to explain exactly what the words meant.
If I had asked them to write a 500-word paper on their views of business trends over the past 50 years, they might have been able to discuss major trends, but if they were injected into an entrepreneurial situation running a business, they would have quickly found out that on the week you can't make the payroll—your employees don't care what Adam Smith said in The Wealth of Nations. All they care about is getting paid.
I must agree that if a person who does not know how to swim is thrown into a pool in water over his/her head, he/she will flail—in an attempt to save himself. Would it not be more productive and more applicable if he/she were taught the rudimentary guidelines of swimming first, rather than when he/she is drowning? And once taught those rudimentary guidelines, taught how to apply them properly?
I'm a firm believer that learning, tempered with experience, offers the most successful MBA and PhD candidates...and that's speaking from serving as Professor and Advisor to over 285 of them over the past five years or so.
My best advice is to study as much as you want, learn as much as you can—and practice those things which you study and learn. Even owning and/or managing a small business teaches principles best learned outside theory and school. Books are wonderful resources, but there's no substitute for experience.
This always leads to the argument, "But I have a graduate degree. Why can't I get a job?"
My friends, seize upon the best business opportunity—one that offers you the experience you need for your own personal "seasoning." Your learning and knowledge will propel you into the forefront of the business, and you will find yourself quickly learning that responsibility will generally be delegated when you demonstrate your ability to accept it.
Recent worldwide studies have shown that an MBA will change jobs seven times over his/her lifetime. Be certain that your degrees do not outpace your applied knowledge and the applicability of the learning you take away from your degree program.
Alan Guinn, Managing Director
The Guinn Consultancy Group, Inc.
From United States, Bluff City
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Hello members,
The discussion by people here was great, with good suggestions. But one thing I wanted to focus on is this: people say that a student with 2 years of experience must be allowed to do an MBA. However, do you believe that the work done by that person before can give them a general view of how the organization will be structured, how the commands will be given, what obstacles they may face in doing innovative work, the different kinds of people in the company, and so on? I believe that to understand all this, 2 years is a long time to spend. A month or two in an organization can provide all this information. After joining an MBA program, the view and approach must be entirely different for a person who has worked as an engineer in the same or a different organization. Therefore, more than 2 years of experience is necessary before pursuing an MBA. There should be more live projects in the organization, more role-playing, and an environment must be created for them to understand the corporate landscape. If a person cannot grasp the aforementioned features of the corporate world in 1 or 2 months, then they may not have the competency to be an MBA graduate or manager in general.
This is what I wanted to specify on this topic.
From India, Vadodara
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The discussion by people here was great, with good suggestions. But one thing I wanted to focus on is this: people say that a student with 2 years of experience must be allowed to do an MBA. However, do you believe that the work done by that person before can give them a general view of how the organization will be structured, how the commands will be given, what obstacles they may face in doing innovative work, the different kinds of people in the company, and so on? I believe that to understand all this, 2 years is a long time to spend. A month or two in an organization can provide all this information. After joining an MBA program, the view and approach must be entirely different for a person who has worked as an engineer in the same or a different organization. Therefore, more than 2 years of experience is necessary before pursuing an MBA. There should be more live projects in the organization, more role-playing, and an environment must be created for them to understand the corporate landscape. If a person cannot grasp the aforementioned features of the corporate world in 1 or 2 months, then they may not have the competency to be an MBA graduate or manager in general.
This is what I wanted to specify on this topic.
From India, Vadodara
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ALAN, Your writing is so true. I agree 100%. Apart from few exceptions, vast majority are exactly as per your descriptions. regards LEO LINGHAM
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Two years is not a long time; it is less than 5% of our working career.
New hires, especially recent college graduates, should be too busy learning their jobs to learn much about their employer, coworkers, and especially the management team.
I know that the average IQ for engineers is high, but that doesn't mean they understand why people do what they do. Until we learn about ourselves and others, we are not in a position to make useful improvements.
My advice to new college graduates is to learn their profession, become a specialist, and then, after years of experience, consider becoming managers, then earn an MBA. Under no circumstances should a recent college graduate think they know enough about anything related to the business of engineering. Effective managing is much harder to do than competent engineering.
The MBA degree doesn't make a person a good manager. I'm both an engineer and an MBA.
From United States, Chelsea
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New hires, especially recent college graduates, should be too busy learning their jobs to learn much about their employer, coworkers, and especially the management team.
I know that the average IQ for engineers is high, but that doesn't mean they understand why people do what they do. Until we learn about ourselves and others, we are not in a position to make useful improvements.
My advice to new college graduates is to learn their profession, become a specialist, and then, after years of experience, consider becoming managers, then earn an MBA. Under no circumstances should a recent college graduate think they know enough about anything related to the business of engineering. Effective managing is much harder to do than competent engineering.
The MBA degree doesn't make a person a good manager. I'm both an engineer and an MBA.
From United States, Chelsea
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Hi Robert,
Nice to see your reply and your view. Whatever you mentioned, I believe I have a different perspective on this. If a person joins a company as an engineer, they learn how to perform their engineering job effectively. They acquire theoretical knowledge and practical skills related to engineering, not management. As they spend time in the company, they grasp how the company operates and how to navigate within it.
On the other hand, when a person with an MBA background joins as a summer trainee or management trainee, they bring theoretical management knowledge. They then gain practical experience in managing situations within the company. This is akin to asking someone to cook a different dish when they are only familiar with cooking another dish.
I think I have expressed my viewpoint clearly. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. As I am an engineer currently pursuing my MBA, I felt the need to revisit my message to ensure clarity.
From India, Vadodara
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Nice to see your reply and your view. Whatever you mentioned, I believe I have a different perspective on this. If a person joins a company as an engineer, they learn how to perform their engineering job effectively. They acquire theoretical knowledge and practical skills related to engineering, not management. As they spend time in the company, they grasp how the company operates and how to navigate within it.
On the other hand, when a person with an MBA background joins as a summer trainee or management trainee, they bring theoretical management knowledge. They then gain practical experience in managing situations within the company. This is akin to asking someone to cook a different dish when they are only familiar with cooking another dish.
I think I have expressed my viewpoint clearly. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. As I am an engineer currently pursuing my MBA, I felt the need to revisit my message to ensure clarity.
From India, Vadodara
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New employees, especially engineers, should not expect others to listen to them about things which they know not. There is no substitute for experience or education. We need both before we should expect others to take us seriously.
From United States, Chelsea
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From United States, Chelsea
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Hi,
It sounds good that the organization should hire the right people and not just management guys from top-notch organizations.
Problem areas here:
1) These MBAs do an excellent job in their interviews and are trained excellently to answer tricky questions.
2) Most of them are good in managerial skills but lack heavily in people skills. That doesn't mean they are less acquainted with office politics, which is expected to include good human skills.
3) Do psychometric tests really help in knowing their true personalities because they have already learned how to answer personality questionnaires in their studies? I strongly believe in training internal high flyers on managerial skills who also possess good quality human skills. This will definitely help the organization not only in job enrichment based on merit but also in saving the company costs in a large manner.
Thank you,
Indrayani
From United Arab Emirates, Al Ain
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It sounds good that the organization should hire the right people and not just management guys from top-notch organizations.
Problem areas here:
1) These MBAs do an excellent job in their interviews and are trained excellently to answer tricky questions.
2) Most of them are good in managerial skills but lack heavily in people skills. That doesn't mean they are less acquainted with office politics, which is expected to include good human skills.
3) Do psychometric tests really help in knowing their true personalities because they have already learned how to answer personality questionnaires in their studies? I strongly believe in training internal high flyers on managerial skills who also possess good quality human skills. This will definitely help the organization not only in job enrichment based on merit but also in saving the company costs in a large manner.
Thank you,
Indrayani
From United Arab Emirates, Al Ain
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Hello Indrayani:
It sounds good that an organization should hire the right people and not just management guys from top-notch organizations.
Employers that recruit only from the top-notch schools ensure that they don't hire the best employees available.
1) These MBAs do an excellent job in their interviews and are trained excellently to answer tricky questions.
Answering tricky questions well doesn't indicate future job success, but it may indicate that the interviewee has read the right book.
2) Most of them are good in managerial skills but lack heavily in people skills. That doesn't mean they are less acquainted with office politics, which is expected to be good human skills.
We call it having a fit for the job; some call it talent. Fit or talent is unrelated to knowledge, education, and experience. This explains why hiring graduates from only the best schools doesn't always get us the best employees.
3) Do psychometric tests really help in knowing their true personalities?
Yes, but we assess for job-related behaviors, thinking styles, and occupational interests.
Because they have already learned how to answer personality questionnaires in their studies.
We find that applicants don't know how to answer job fit assessments so that they ensure a job offer. Be aware that all assessments are not created equal.
What I strongly believe is to train internal high flyers on managerial skills who also possess good qualities of human skills. This will definitely help the organization not only in job enrichment of people on merit but also in saving costs for the company in a large manner.
I agree, but we need to be careful that we don't select the wrong people. Competent talkative employees often get selected before the less talkative competent employees, yet the less talkative competent employees make the best managers. Managers need to listen more than they talk. If a manager is talking, he isn't learning.
From United States, Chelsea
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It sounds good that an organization should hire the right people and not just management guys from top-notch organizations.
Employers that recruit only from the top-notch schools ensure that they don't hire the best employees available.
1) These MBAs do an excellent job in their interviews and are trained excellently to answer tricky questions.
Answering tricky questions well doesn't indicate future job success, but it may indicate that the interviewee has read the right book.
2) Most of them are good in managerial skills but lack heavily in people skills. That doesn't mean they are less acquainted with office politics, which is expected to be good human skills.
We call it having a fit for the job; some call it talent. Fit or talent is unrelated to knowledge, education, and experience. This explains why hiring graduates from only the best schools doesn't always get us the best employees.
3) Do psychometric tests really help in knowing their true personalities?
Yes, but we assess for job-related behaviors, thinking styles, and occupational interests.
Because they have already learned how to answer personality questionnaires in their studies.
We find that applicants don't know how to answer job fit assessments so that they ensure a job offer. Be aware that all assessments are not created equal.
What I strongly believe is to train internal high flyers on managerial skills who also possess good qualities of human skills. This will definitely help the organization not only in job enrichment of people on merit but also in saving costs for the company in a large manner.
I agree, but we need to be careful that we don't select the wrong people. Competent talkative employees often get selected before the less talkative competent employees, yet the less talkative competent employees make the best managers. Managers need to listen more than they talk. If a manager is talking, he isn't learning.
From United States, Chelsea
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Hi Robert,
Well said. I agree with you 100%.
1) At which level do you think we should have this Job Fit Assessment in the selection process? Would you like to share any such test with us or rights reserved?
2) Why do you think these MBAs fail to deliver the expected results?
3) I don't mean high flyers, I mean not just talkative people but those selected through Assessment Centres themselves.
Indrayani
From United Arab Emirates, Al Ain
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Well said. I agree with you 100%.
1) At which level do you think we should have this Job Fit Assessment in the selection process? Would you like to share any such test with us or rights reserved?
2) Why do you think these MBAs fail to deliver the expected results?
3) I don't mean high flyers, I mean not just talkative people but those selected through Assessment Centres themselves.
Indrayani
From United Arab Emirates, Al Ain
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Hello Indrayani:
"Well said...I agree with you 100%."
Thank you and great minds...
"What do you think at which level should we have this Job Fit Assessment in the selection process?"
Before the job offer is made.
"Would you like to share any such test with us or rights reserved?"
The questions are important, but not as important as how the answers are evaluated. Read "10 Steps to increase employee retention and productivity" at http://tinyurl.com/9t6jh.
"Why do you think these MBA fail to deliver the expectation?"
Knowledge isn't enough; we must also have the talent demanded by the job. Most employers don't know that their jobs require specific talent, so they hire for competence. Employees need to be competent but do not need to be the most qualified.
"I don't mean high flyers means talkative people but those selected through Assessment Centres themselves."
Just be sure the assessment center evaluates for talent, not just knowledge, competence, and skills.
From United States, Chelsea
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"Well said...I agree with you 100%."
Thank you and great minds...
"What do you think at which level should we have this Job Fit Assessment in the selection process?"
Before the job offer is made.
"Would you like to share any such test with us or rights reserved?"
The questions are important, but not as important as how the answers are evaluated. Read "10 Steps to increase employee retention and productivity" at http://tinyurl.com/9t6jh.
"Why do you think these MBA fail to deliver the expectation?"
Knowledge isn't enough; we must also have the talent demanded by the job. Most employers don't know that their jobs require specific talent, so they hire for competence. Employees need to be competent but do not need to be the most qualified.
"I don't mean high flyers means talkative people but those selected through Assessment Centres themselves."
Just be sure the assessment center evaluates for talent, not just knowledge, competence, and skills.
From United States, Chelsea
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Indrayani, you seem to be on the right track in your thinking, and I'd just like to add a point or two, if I may.
If a Job Fit Assessment is to be of the most use, why not conduct the Assessment on a regular basis post-employment, as opposed to pre-employment? Ideas, thoughts, beliefs, likes, and dislikes change as we settle into positions... and even the best "hire" can demonstrate that the "initial fit" may not be an "ongoing fit" between the position and the candidate.
The Job Fit Assessment "type" of vehicle can assist in employee assessment of his/her skills in "role" fulfillment of the position held -- and not be used as a "screening" tool to determine "job" fulfillment. Role fulfillment and job fulfillment are two separate and distinct attributes.
Often, in my consults, I watch hiring managers reach personnel decisions based on a set of test results -- as opposed to the holistic aspect of the interview process. No "test" should be the sole determining factor in a new hire. No "test" should be the sole determining factor in continued employment.
As to your question directed to Mr. Gately about why do MBA Graduates fail to deliver to expectation, let me comment in short order. The belief that any new graduate -- either BS, MBA, or PhD -- can simply breeze into a position and perform to expectation is, generally speaking, a fallacy.
When you started school, did someone teach you how to study? When you started your first job, did someone train you as to expectations? When you started in the position you currently hold, did someone conduct a transition meeting, or an orientation, to set expectations?
Often, we will see new MBAs hired and immediately expected to perform to some esoteric set of standards that have not been identified, much less defined.
So often, we find that the hiring manager doesn't understand the role requirements for a position but is still expected to hire to fill the position. To quote a good friend of mine, how 'lame' is that?
There is no single test that will determine the success or failure of a new hire in a position. In real life, we use every tool we have at our disposal to make the best determination possible and hire the best candidate -- in our opinion -- to fill a position.
Hope that offers a bit of insight.
Alan Guinn, Managing Director
The Guinn Consultancy Group, Inc.
From United States, Bluff City
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If a Job Fit Assessment is to be of the most use, why not conduct the Assessment on a regular basis post-employment, as opposed to pre-employment? Ideas, thoughts, beliefs, likes, and dislikes change as we settle into positions... and even the best "hire" can demonstrate that the "initial fit" may not be an "ongoing fit" between the position and the candidate.
The Job Fit Assessment "type" of vehicle can assist in employee assessment of his/her skills in "role" fulfillment of the position held -- and not be used as a "screening" tool to determine "job" fulfillment. Role fulfillment and job fulfillment are two separate and distinct attributes.
Often, in my consults, I watch hiring managers reach personnel decisions based on a set of test results -- as opposed to the holistic aspect of the interview process. No "test" should be the sole determining factor in a new hire. No "test" should be the sole determining factor in continued employment.
As to your question directed to Mr. Gately about why do MBA Graduates fail to deliver to expectation, let me comment in short order. The belief that any new graduate -- either BS, MBA, or PhD -- can simply breeze into a position and perform to expectation is, generally speaking, a fallacy.
When you started school, did someone teach you how to study? When you started your first job, did someone train you as to expectations? When you started in the position you currently hold, did someone conduct a transition meeting, or an orientation, to set expectations?
Often, we will see new MBAs hired and immediately expected to perform to some esoteric set of standards that have not been identified, much less defined.
So often, we find that the hiring manager doesn't understand the role requirements for a position but is still expected to hire to fill the position. To quote a good friend of mine, how 'lame' is that?
There is no single test that will determine the success or failure of a new hire in a position. In real life, we use every tool we have at our disposal to make the best determination possible and hire the best candidate -- in our opinion -- to fill a position.
Hope that offers a bit of insight.
Alan Guinn, Managing Director
The Guinn Consultancy Group, Inc.
From United States, Bluff City
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Hello Alan:
There is no single test that will determine success or failure of a new hire in a position. But an effective test can identify which qualified job applicants have the best chance for job success, which is the reason we have selection processes.
In real life, we use every tool we have at our disposal to make the best determination possible. Unfortunately, most hiring managers have a limited set of tools. Quite often, their toolbox doesn't include a job fit assessment, so they hire for competence.
We suggest hiring the best employees since the best candidates are the right people to hire only about 20% of the time.
From United States, Chelsea
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There is no single test that will determine success or failure of a new hire in a position. But an effective test can identify which qualified job applicants have the best chance for job success, which is the reason we have selection processes.
In real life, we use every tool we have at our disposal to make the best determination possible. Unfortunately, most hiring managers have a limited set of tools. Quite often, their toolbox doesn't include a job fit assessment, so they hire for competence.
We suggest hiring the best employees since the best candidates are the right people to hire only about 20% of the time.
From United States, Chelsea
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Dear Lalit,
Leaving aside the top 20 institutes, the students of other institutes do not use even 5% of what they have learned as they are in execution jobs after their MBA. It is much better to do an MBA after a few years of work experience.
Prashant Pandey, Educationist, and Professional Trainer. 9889515111.
From India, Varanasi
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Leaving aside the top 20 institutes, the students of other institutes do not use even 5% of what they have learned as they are in execution jobs after their MBA. It is much better to do an MBA after a few years of work experience.
Prashant Pandey, Educationist, and Professional Trainer. 9889515111.
From India, Varanasi
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