Peace and Greetings to everyone,
I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not at all, but most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims and it's only a matter of racial creed, rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies. In Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hour and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
4. Not shaking hands with females - however strange or rude it may sound, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., a Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
11. A Muslim can't attend or be a part of the following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
12. A Muslim must get a day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.
I only want to ask what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
From India, Mumbai
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7I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not at all, but most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims and it's only a matter of racial creed, rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies. In Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hour and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
4. Not shaking hands with females - however strange or rude it may sound, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., a Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
11. A Muslim can't attend or be a part of the following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
12. A Muslim must get a day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.
I only want to ask what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
From India, Mumbai
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I will try to answer your query taking the easier points first.
Point 12 is catered for as two Eids are public holidays in India (please see Public holidays in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Following points 10 and 11 should not be a problem, as people will understand the viewpoint. Point 3 should be easy to follow as companies do not insist that people eat during the day. Point 4 should also not be a problem as people will understand, as shaking hands with a woman is not a normal Indian practice. One can do Namasthe (that does not mean bowing the head). It is just a way of greeting in India.
Points or requirements 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 should be the norm in ETHICAL companies.
As India is a Secular country, the organizations just cannot cater to the needs of any religious community's requirement. Hence, you will find that certain of the above 12 needs may need to be compromised. For example, getting away from meetings to offer prayers in Points 1 and 2. Companies cannot afford to give extra time for prayers, and the concerned staff member would be required to work extra time to compensate for the time taken for the prayer. If I am right, Mr. S A Khadir has said the same in the past at https://www.citehr.com/341125-shall-...e-hours-6.html.
Regarding Point 2, I wonder what the Quran says about going to a mosque if it is not in close vicinity!!
I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings. If I have, please accept my apologies.
Have a nice day.
From United Kingdom
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Point 12 is catered for as two Eids are public holidays in India (please see Public holidays in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Following points 10 and 11 should not be a problem, as people will understand the viewpoint. Point 3 should be easy to follow as companies do not insist that people eat during the day. Point 4 should also not be a problem as people will understand, as shaking hands with a woman is not a normal Indian practice. One can do Namasthe (that does not mean bowing the head). It is just a way of greeting in India.
Points or requirements 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 should be the norm in ETHICAL companies.
As India is a Secular country, the organizations just cannot cater to the needs of any religious community's requirement. Hence, you will find that certain of the above 12 needs may need to be compromised. For example, getting away from meetings to offer prayers in Points 1 and 2. Companies cannot afford to give extra time for prayers, and the concerned staff member would be required to work extra time to compensate for the time taken for the prayer. If I am right, Mr. S A Khadir has said the same in the past at https://www.citehr.com/341125-shall-...e-hours-6.html.
Regarding Point 2, I wonder what the Quran says about going to a mosque if it is not in close vicinity!!
I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings. If I have, please accept my apologies.
Have a nice day.
From United Kingdom
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Hello,
There is little to add to what Mr. Simhan has said precisely. My take on this subject may appear to be simplistic. The organizations are secular and do not make concessions beyond a point to anyone. Every organization has its own religion, culture, norms, ethics, and discipline to which everyone has to be subservient! Being a country of vast diversity in terms of religion, languages, beliefs, etc., if concessions are made to one sect, then others cannot be denied. If granted to others also, there will be chaos that will destroy the very sustainability of the organization. No, on grounds of the "religion" of the organizations, if such concessions are denied, they cannot be faulted. The organization may lose the good qualities the candidate may bring, but it's a cost that must be paid by the organization. Homogeneity of work culture is vital. It must be preserved and sanctified. This is a perspective that cuts across the good and the bad and what a religion or a sect may bring to the organization, without finding faults with any of these. In life, we have to make compromises and even pay costs if we want to realize our wishes, dreams, and ambitions. Let us respect this culture!
Regards,
Samvedan
January 21, 2012
From India, Pune
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There is little to add to what Mr. Simhan has said precisely. My take on this subject may appear to be simplistic. The organizations are secular and do not make concessions beyond a point to anyone. Every organization has its own religion, culture, norms, ethics, and discipline to which everyone has to be subservient! Being a country of vast diversity in terms of religion, languages, beliefs, etc., if concessions are made to one sect, then others cannot be denied. If granted to others also, there will be chaos that will destroy the very sustainability of the organization. No, on grounds of the "religion" of the organizations, if such concessions are denied, they cannot be faulted. The organization may lose the good qualities the candidate may bring, but it's a cost that must be paid by the organization. Homogeneity of work culture is vital. It must be preserved and sanctified. This is a perspective that cuts across the good and the bad and what a religion or a sect may bring to the organization, without finding faults with any of these. In life, we have to make compromises and even pay costs if we want to realize our wishes, dreams, and ambitions. Let us respect this culture!
Regards,
Samvedan
January 21, 2012
From India, Pune
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Dear,
I'm practicing all of the above while I am working as HR. Be free to approach your supervisor and discuss; I'm sure you will get your problem solved. Before that, you must be loyal to the company and be a true believer. We have a specific place to offer Namaz and extra time on Friday for Jumaa. We got this after discussing with the boss, while we have to make some adjustments.
In my experience, I believe that everyone will love a true believer. A true believer will be loyal and won't cheat. Every company wants such a personality in the present era. So practicing simple religious practices like Namaz and fasting is not difficult in today's scenario because of work.
No boss comes asking whether you want to offer a prayer. If you want, ask it frankly from the concerned authority; I'm sure they will offer some adjustments.
Regards,
Sajid Muhammed
Kannur
From India, Hyderabad
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I'm practicing all of the above while I am working as HR. Be free to approach your supervisor and discuss; I'm sure you will get your problem solved. Before that, you must be loyal to the company and be a true believer. We have a specific place to offer Namaz and extra time on Friday for Jumaa. We got this after discussing with the boss, while we have to make some adjustments.
In my experience, I believe that everyone will love a true believer. A true believer will be loyal and won't cheat. Every company wants such a personality in the present era. So practicing simple religious practices like Namaz and fasting is not difficult in today's scenario because of work.
No boss comes asking whether you want to offer a prayer. If you want, ask it frankly from the concerned authority; I'm sure they will offer some adjustments.
Regards,
Sajid Muhammed
Kannur
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Brother,
I am sorry to say that this is not the topic to be discussed on Citehr. Kindly meet your mosque priest; he will guide you in the context of Quran guidelines.
Kindly correct your thinking; we do not have Muslims by faith or name. A Muslim is just a Muslim who needs Hidayat from Allah.
Offer Namaz five times a day, read Farz Namaz even if your workload is heavy.
For Friday Namaz, you can skip the bayan before Namaz, and it will not take 1 hour. Just request your management to change your lunch timings on Friday.
Fasting is not a problem; you can fast. During fasting, we cannot ask for concessions; we have to work as on a normal day.
No female will ask you to shake hands. Just as Samb said, do Namaste.
Keep your records updated; then the problem of cheating will not arise.
If the boss is asking you to forge documents, you are not insisting on forging documents. Allah knows what you are doing, so don't worry; just pray for your boss.
Explain to your boss with valid data, and the problems of favoritism and inequality can be managed to an extent.
We are people of religious tolerance; there is no problem in attending or arranging parties. Kindly seek help from your mosque cleric; he will explain the do's and don'ts.
I don't think any company management will not sanction your leave on Eid days. You have your earned leave; just get your boss's approval for Eid day.
I may sound rude in this, but if you need any detailed clarification, kindly email me at my personal ID or message your problem on the Istakara website; they will reply to you.
From India, Bangalore
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I am sorry to say that this is not the topic to be discussed on Citehr. Kindly meet your mosque priest; he will guide you in the context of Quran guidelines.
Kindly correct your thinking; we do not have Muslims by faith or name. A Muslim is just a Muslim who needs Hidayat from Allah.
Offer Namaz five times a day, read Farz Namaz even if your workload is heavy.
For Friday Namaz, you can skip the bayan before Namaz, and it will not take 1 hour. Just request your management to change your lunch timings on Friday.
Fasting is not a problem; you can fast. During fasting, we cannot ask for concessions; we have to work as on a normal day.
No female will ask you to shake hands. Just as Samb said, do Namaste.
Keep your records updated; then the problem of cheating will not arise.
If the boss is asking you to forge documents, you are not insisting on forging documents. Allah knows what you are doing, so don't worry; just pray for your boss.
Explain to your boss with valid data, and the problems of favoritism and inequality can be managed to an extent.
We are people of religious tolerance; there is no problem in attending or arranging parties. Kindly seek help from your mosque cleric; he will explain the do's and don'ts.
I don't think any company management will not sanction your leave on Eid days. You have your earned leave; just get your boss's approval for Eid day.
I may sound rude in this, but if you need any detailed clarification, kindly email me at my personal ID or message your problem on the Istakara website; they will reply to you.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Mubashira,
This is the right place to discuss the problem. This is not a religious matter to ask a priest. Anything related to employees can be discussed here. If you are not interested, you can skip the matter, but there are people who experience problems with religious practices while at work.
Sorry, this is not meant to upset you, Mubashira. It is just to encourage people who keep on posting.
From India, Hyderabad
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This is the right place to discuss the problem. This is not a religious matter to ask a priest. Anything related to employees can be discussed here. If you are not interested, you can skip the matter, but there are people who experience problems with religious practices while at work.
Sorry, this is not meant to upset you, Mubashira. It is just to encourage people who keep on posting.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Mr. Peace Promoter,
I appreciate your straightforward nature and your pointing out of the FACTS, which are NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ITSELF. To start with, "ISLAM" is based on "ETHICAL LIVING, CLEANLINESS/TIDINESS (ETERNAL/INTERNAL) AND LOT MORE" which doesn't ALLOW MUSLIMS to PRACTICE anything that is said to be "HARAAM (WRONG)" by ALMIGHTY "ALLAH". Hence, A MUSLIM needs to STRICTLY PAY ATTENTION to whatsoever is said to be HARAAM (NOT PERMITTED) & HALAAL (PERMITTED).
Whatever you wrote about MUSLIMS - "A MUSLIM BY STRONG FAITH (FEAR & LOVE) IN ALLAH" and ""A MUSLIM BY RACE (CULTURAL/TRADITIONAL)" is the BITTER FACT, and I really felt ashamed of myself because at times, I have gone wrong in the ANGRY STATE OF MIND.
I had responded to your points in your post below marked in "PURPLE" & BOLD.
[QUOTE=PeacePromoter;1765379]Peace and Greetings to everyone,
I request maximum responses to my queries as they would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not all, most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims, and it's only a matter of racial creed, rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies. In the Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler, and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours. (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
I do understand that "ALLAH said, there is NO EXCUSE FOR OBLIGATORY PRAYERS which I had PRESCRIBED FOR THE TRUE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM". In India, it's very difficult to find a CLEAN place within an organization for offering OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Hence, you may create a SMALL PLACE and keep it CLEAN. At times, you can even PRAY ALONE if you are not in a position to PRAY-IN-TIME. If you can't pray with JAMAT, you can pray ALONE. What counts at the end of the day, whether you had offered your PRAYERS or not, and ALLAH knows everything as he is watching us. Hence, you may not take everything SERIOUSLY only if you are NOT WRONG.
Regarding the meetings, I don't think it's happening every day between you and your CEO, especially during PRAYER HOURS. If it is, you may talk to your CEO and request him to reschedule the MEETING TIMINGS. As a human being, your CEO will consider your request because NO ONE IN THIS WORLD CAN STOP MUSLIMS FROM OFFERING OBLIGATORY PRAYERS.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hour, and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
Purposely, a meeting can't be scheduled on FRIDAY between you and your CEO, knowing the fact that MUSLIMS need time to offer FRIDAY OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. AFTERNOON PRAYERS are usually during LUNCH BREAKS, and NO MEETING WILL BE SCHEDULED DURING LUNCH HOUR. Also, you have sufficient time to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Please explain to your CEO the importance of PRAYERS, including FRIDAY PRAYERS, which is equivalent to an EID (FESTIVAL) ITSELF
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
The world knows about the way A MUSLIM FAST as PRESCRIBED AND FORMATTED BY ISLAM.
4. Not shaking hands with females - however strange or rude it may seem, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
You can avoid it, and it's not NECESSARY to SHAKE HANDS with FEMALES. NO ONE WILL FORCE/COMPEL YOU TO SHAKE HANDS WITH FEMALES AGAINST YOUR WILL.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss.)
I request you to PRACTICE ISLAM as prescribed by ALLAH, and you may request other MUSLIMS NOT TO DO THAT WHICH IS AGAINST THE WILL OF ALLAH. But, ALLAH itself said that, "I AM GIVING YOU A CHOICE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR WHATEVER WRONG CHOICES YOU HAD CHOSEN". i.e. If we are doing MISTAKES/SINS, we have to ACCEPT THE PUNISHMENT, and NONE CAN SAVE US EXCEPT OUR GOOD DEEDS, but it doesn't mean that, ON ONE SIDE we keep doing mistakes, and on the OTHER SIDE we continue doing good things.
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss
You need to understand the OUTCOME OF THE MISTAKE BEFORE COMMITTING IT. If it is DRAGGING YOU TO HELL, then DON'T DO IT; else, if it is HELPING YOUR ORGANIZATION, PLEASE DO IT. A MUSLIM BY FAITH, it doesn't mean that "A FOOLISH PERSONALITY FOLLOWING ISLAM BLINDLY WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING ISLAM IN-DEPTH"
7. A Muslim can't do any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss
REFER MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION NO.7
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people
Who asked you to do INJUSTICE with your TEAM MEMBERS or any other person in this world?
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes
AGREE. It's your LIFE; you DECIDE in what way you want to LIVE. You may take support of ANNA HAZARE to get rid of CORRUPTION or to STOP people from PRACTICING UNETHICAL HABITS.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties
AGREE. WHO ASKED YOU TO JOIN? IF YOU JOIN, WHO ASKED/FORCED YOU TO DRINK ALCOHOL ETC AGAINST YOUR WILL
11. A Muslim can't attend/be a part of the following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
[COLOR="Purple"][FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="4"] [B]REFER MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION NO.
From India, Chennai
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I appreciate your straightforward nature and your pointing out of the FACTS, which are NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ITSELF. To start with, "ISLAM" is based on "ETHICAL LIVING, CLEANLINESS/TIDINESS (ETERNAL/INTERNAL) AND LOT MORE" which doesn't ALLOW MUSLIMS to PRACTICE anything that is said to be "HARAAM (WRONG)" by ALMIGHTY "ALLAH". Hence, A MUSLIM needs to STRICTLY PAY ATTENTION to whatsoever is said to be HARAAM (NOT PERMITTED) & HALAAL (PERMITTED).
Whatever you wrote about MUSLIMS - "A MUSLIM BY STRONG FAITH (FEAR & LOVE) IN ALLAH" and ""A MUSLIM BY RACE (CULTURAL/TRADITIONAL)" is the BITTER FACT, and I really felt ashamed of myself because at times, I have gone wrong in the ANGRY STATE OF MIND.
I had responded to your points in your post below marked in "PURPLE" & BOLD.
[QUOTE=PeacePromoter;1765379]Peace and Greetings to everyone,
I request maximum responses to my queries as they would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not all, most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims, and it's only a matter of racial creed, rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies. In the Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler, and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours. (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
I do understand that "ALLAH said, there is NO EXCUSE FOR OBLIGATORY PRAYERS which I had PRESCRIBED FOR THE TRUE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM". In India, it's very difficult to find a CLEAN place within an organization for offering OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Hence, you may create a SMALL PLACE and keep it CLEAN. At times, you can even PRAY ALONE if you are not in a position to PRAY-IN-TIME. If you can't pray with JAMAT, you can pray ALONE. What counts at the end of the day, whether you had offered your PRAYERS or not, and ALLAH knows everything as he is watching us. Hence, you may not take everything SERIOUSLY only if you are NOT WRONG.
Regarding the meetings, I don't think it's happening every day between you and your CEO, especially during PRAYER HOURS. If it is, you may talk to your CEO and request him to reschedule the MEETING TIMINGS. As a human being, your CEO will consider your request because NO ONE IN THIS WORLD CAN STOP MUSLIMS FROM OFFERING OBLIGATORY PRAYERS.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hour, and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
Purposely, a meeting can't be scheduled on FRIDAY between you and your CEO, knowing the fact that MUSLIMS need time to offer FRIDAY OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. AFTERNOON PRAYERS are usually during LUNCH BREAKS, and NO MEETING WILL BE SCHEDULED DURING LUNCH HOUR. Also, you have sufficient time to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Please explain to your CEO the importance of PRAYERS, including FRIDAY PRAYERS, which is equivalent to an EID (FESTIVAL) ITSELF
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
The world knows about the way A MUSLIM FAST as PRESCRIBED AND FORMATTED BY ISLAM.
4. Not shaking hands with females - however strange or rude it may seem, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
You can avoid it, and it's not NECESSARY to SHAKE HANDS with FEMALES. NO ONE WILL FORCE/COMPEL YOU TO SHAKE HANDS WITH FEMALES AGAINST YOUR WILL.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss.)
I request you to PRACTICE ISLAM as prescribed by ALLAH, and you may request other MUSLIMS NOT TO DO THAT WHICH IS AGAINST THE WILL OF ALLAH. But, ALLAH itself said that, "I AM GIVING YOU A CHOICE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR WHATEVER WRONG CHOICES YOU HAD CHOSEN". i.e. If we are doing MISTAKES/SINS, we have to ACCEPT THE PUNISHMENT, and NONE CAN SAVE US EXCEPT OUR GOOD DEEDS, but it doesn't mean that, ON ONE SIDE we keep doing mistakes, and on the OTHER SIDE we continue doing good things.
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss
You need to understand the OUTCOME OF THE MISTAKE BEFORE COMMITTING IT. If it is DRAGGING YOU TO HELL, then DON'T DO IT; else, if it is HELPING YOUR ORGANIZATION, PLEASE DO IT. A MUSLIM BY FAITH, it doesn't mean that "A FOOLISH PERSONALITY FOLLOWING ISLAM BLINDLY WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING ISLAM IN-DEPTH"
7. A Muslim can't do any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss
REFER MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION NO.7
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people
Who asked you to do INJUSTICE with your TEAM MEMBERS or any other person in this world?
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes
AGREE. It's your LIFE; you DECIDE in what way you want to LIVE. You may take support of ANNA HAZARE to get rid of CORRUPTION or to STOP people from PRACTICING UNETHICAL HABITS.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties
AGREE. WHO ASKED YOU TO JOIN? IF YOU JOIN, WHO ASKED/FORCED YOU TO DRINK ALCOHOL ETC AGAINST YOUR WILL
11. A Muslim can't attend/be a part of the following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
[COLOR="Purple"][FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="4"] [B]REFER MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION NO.
From India, Chennai
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Dear Ms. Naziya,
Whatever the category of Muslims, as narrated by a Peace Promoter, is a fact. You can't deny it. Muslims do have faith in Allah, but they (those xyz) don't have fear of Allah, that's why they continue making mistakes repeatedly. Can you deny this fact? I hope you haven't seen the world yet.
You haven't understood the concerns of the Peace Promoter; hence, you failed to justify your comments while associating with your thought process, though a few of your suggestions are perfect.
I wonder why one has to seek guidance from mosque priests/ulama. Do you have knowledge about Islam when you have faith in Allah?
Regarding Friday prayers, please update your knowledge and don't even suggest anyone skip the bayan because you are making a big mistake. "We have to enter the mosque before the bayan starts." Since you are a female, you wouldn't have had a chance to pray at the mosque. Friday prayer is not just a normal prayer.
Please update your knowledge and direct people in the right direction without confusing them.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Whatever the category of Muslims, as narrated by a Peace Promoter, is a fact. You can't deny it. Muslims do have faith in Allah, but they (those xyz) don't have fear of Allah, that's why they continue making mistakes repeatedly. Can you deny this fact? I hope you haven't seen the world yet.
You haven't understood the concerns of the Peace Promoter; hence, you failed to justify your comments while associating with your thought process, though a few of your suggestions are perfect.
I wonder why one has to seek guidance from mosque priests/ulama. Do you have knowledge about Islam when you have faith in Allah?
Regarding Friday prayers, please update your knowledge and don't even suggest anyone skip the bayan because you are making a big mistake. "We have to enter the mosque before the bayan starts." Since you are a female, you wouldn't have had a chance to pray at the mosque. Friday prayer is not just a normal prayer.
Please update your knowledge and direct people in the right direction without confusing them.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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My Response in BLUE Colour
Peace and Greetings to everyone,
I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with for those who aren't aware of (both Muslims and non-muslims), there's a different between a muslim by name and a muslim by faith. if not at all, but most of the muslims today are only muslims because their fathers (parents) were muslims and its only a matter of racial creed, than to have faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies.
Thank you for the thought, but would differ with you, as the opinion stated by you may be specific to few individuals and not all in general.
In Arabic lexicon, Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). Once who is a resident, can't be called a traveler and technically, once who is not practicing Islam, can't be called a Muslim.
Sure thank you for the wonderful explanation.
Anyway, this was a very very brief introduction of the things i am going to write now. It was a necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours. (depending on the time one stays in the office. if he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company
Offering SALAH is the ultimate for every Muslim. When he is at office, he can very well offer Salah, as one comes during Lunch Time(ZUHUR), the next comes in the evening(ASAR). Zuhur – lunch time spare 10mins, Asar – spare your tea time. In the evening, is he needs to stay, sure he will get 10 mins for MAGRIB, as anyways the person will take a coffee break at that moment.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hours and time would be friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday namaz even he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company
Almost 90% of the cases, people understand the importance of Prayers, that too Jummah Prayer. If we inform them, sure no one is going to stop.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potato, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
Please remember, nobody stops from you fasting. Every corner of the world knows the greatness of Ramadan.
4. Not shaking hands with females - how much strange or rude it may read, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited to shake hands with unrelated females.
What is the need to shake hands? Did anyone compel you to do it? It is matters of every individual right whether to shake hands or not. You don’t do it. Nobody is going to blast you if you are not going to shake hands.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on the behalf of his boss.)
It is applicable to all.
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss
Who asked you to forge? If you are not happy with the wrong thing, put things straight. No one will compel you.
7. A Muslim can't do any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss
No one is asking you to do any favouritism
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people
Did anyone say no to the above statement
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes
Why are you taking Bribe, who asked you to do so.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties
Inform your superior, no one will compel and make it mandatory. Else depute a person for the same.
11. A Muslim can't attend/ be a part of following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
What you do in those parties is very much important. You make your presence available and make yourself low key profile.
12. A Muslim must get day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitra and Eid-ul-Adha.
Almost 90% of the companies have public holidays for EID, if not they have restricted holiday. None will come in between religious sentiments.
I only want to ask that what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
Please be informed that, the above mentioned points are not only applicable to Muslims working as HR, it is applicable to each and every Muslim.
Let us stick to the basic principles of ISLAM and saying of Prophet Mohamed (SAW).
Let us not make a hue and cry for practising ISLAM.
It all comes from within. If we are determined and focussed, we will sure practise ISLAM in much better way by not hurting others sentiments.
Alhamdulillah, I have been working for the past 11 years, all through my career, in which ever company i have worked, i have been practising Islam.
By ALLAH’s grace, i have been offering 5 times without missing a single day for the past 6 years.
PLEASE Let us not mix our religious sentiments with profession.
PLEASE Let us not make our religion, faith to take excuse for our Professional Career.
From India, Coimbatore
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Peace and Greetings to everyone,
I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice.
To begin with for those who aren't aware of (both Muslims and non-muslims), there's a different between a muslim by name and a muslim by faith. if not at all, but most of the muslims today are only muslims because their fathers (parents) were muslims and its only a matter of racial creed, than to have faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing, rather than people of different faith and ideologies.
Thank you for the thought, but would differ with you, as the opinion stated by you may be specific to few individuals and not all in general.
In Arabic lexicon, Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic Prefix 'Mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as Mu + Safar = Musafir (Traveler). Once who is a resident, can't be called a traveler and technically, once who is not practicing Islam, can't be called a Muslim.
Sure thank you for the wonderful explanation.
Anyway, this was a very very brief introduction of the things i am going to write now. It was a necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context. Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering Namaz (Prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 mins, twice/thrice during office hours. (depending on the time one stays in the office. if he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't leave a single time Namaz even he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company
Offering SALAH is the ultimate for every Muslim. When he is at office, he can very well offer Salah, as one comes during Lunch Time(ZUHUR), the next comes in the evening(ASAR). Zuhur – lunch time spare 10mins, Asar – spare your tea time. In the evening, is he needs to stay, sure he will get 10 mins for MAGRIB, as anyways the person will take a coffee break at that moment.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 mins to 1 hours and time would be friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't leave Friday namaz even he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company
Almost 90% of the cases, people understand the importance of Prayers, that too Jummah Prayer. If we inform them, sure no one is going to stop.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - Here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potato, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
Please remember, nobody stops from you fasting. Every corner of the world knows the greatness of Ramadan.
4. Not shaking hands with females - how much strange or rude it may read, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited to shake hands with unrelated females.
What is the need to shake hands? Did anyone compel you to do it? It is matters of every individual right whether to shake hands or not. You don’t do it. Nobody is going to blast you if you are not going to shake hands.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on the behalf of his boss.)
It is applicable to all.
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss
Who asked you to forge? If you are not happy with the wrong thing, put things straight. No one will compel you.
7. A Muslim can't do any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss
No one is asking you to do any favouritism
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people
Did anyone say no to the above statement
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes
Why are you taking Bribe, who asked you to do so.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties
Inform your superior, no one will compel and make it mandatory. Else depute a person for the same.
11. A Muslim can't attend/ be a part of following parties/celebrations - Birthdays, New Year, Religious Festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
What you do in those parties is very much important. You make your presence available and make yourself low key profile.
12. A Muslim must get day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitra and Eid-ul-Adha.
Almost 90% of the companies have public holidays for EID, if not they have restricted holiday. None will come in between religious sentiments.
I only want to ask that what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
Please be informed that, the above mentioned points are not only applicable to Muslims working as HR, it is applicable to each and every Muslim.
Let us stick to the basic principles of ISLAM and saying of Prophet Mohamed (SAW).
Let us not make a hue and cry for practising ISLAM.
It all comes from within. If we are determined and focussed, we will sure practise ISLAM in much better way by not hurting others sentiments.
Alhamdulillah, I have been working for the past 11 years, all through my career, in which ever company i have worked, i have been practising Islam.
By ALLAH’s grace, i have been offering 5 times without missing a single day for the past 6 years.
PLEASE Let us not mix our religious sentiments with profession.
PLEASE Let us not make our religion, faith to take excuse for our Professional Career.
From India, Coimbatore
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Let me Reply to Everyone
To skhadir
In India, its very difficult to find a CLEAN place within an organisation for offering OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Hence, you may create a SMALL PLACE and keep it CLEAN. At times, you can even PRAY ALONE if, you are not in a position to PRAY-IN-TIME. If you can pray with JAMAT, you can pray ALONE.
You got me wrong brother. Finding a clean place is a requirement for prayers, not an issue which I intended to raise. I was asking of the very permission to pray during the office hours (in office premises or elsewhere). It happened with a female classmate of mine that she was categorically denied to pray in her office on the reasoning that if they allow her to do her prayers in the office, next they have to permit Hindu employees to bring ghanti (prayer bell) in the office and do their Pooja. She was working in a big Indian IT company (99.9% of the people know that company and it is one of the highest ranking organizations in Best Employer Rankings) in Noida as a HR Executive. (I have no problem in naming that company if it’s allowed by citehr rules to do so)
Regarding the meetings, it don't think so, its happening every day between you and your CEO especially during PRAYER HOURS. If it is, you may talk to your CEO and request him to re-schedule the MEETING TIMINGS.
Again, I think I should have made my post more detailed. I wasn’t talking of an actual meeting with a CEO of the company. I was just giving an example that even such an important task of meeting with the CEO wouldn’t relax the obligation for offering prayers for a Muslim. I was implying that what would be the tolerance level of the corporation for such an employee who can avoid every single important work of the organization for his personal religious reasons.
You can avoid it and its not NECESSARY to SHAKE HANDS with FEMALES. NO ONE WILL FORCE/COMPEL YOU TO SHAKE HANDS WITH FEMALES AGAINST YOUR WILL.
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work).
You may request other MUSLIMS NOT TO DO WHICH IS AGAINST THE WILL OF ALLAH
I am not at all concerned what other Muslims might be doing in the same organization. I only want that my employer don’t isolate my actions to tell me that why I am acting ‘extremist’, ‘strange’, while other muslims (in the same organization) aren’t doing so.
if it is HELPING YOUR ORGANISATION, PLEASE DO IT
Again, I am asking this question because one of my Hindu friends has worked for around 4-5 years as a HR executive in one of the top MNC in Gurgaon and he told me that its common practice to do manipulation and forging of HR audits so that to present a ‘acceptable’ picture to seniors. Again, it might be helping the organization but if it’s a lie, it’s a lie. If it’s cheating, its cheating and there’s no compromise on it, period!
AGREE. Its your LIFE, you DECIDE in what way you want to LIVE. You may take support of ANNA HAZARE to get rid of CORRUPTION or to STOP people from PRACTICING UNETHICAL HABITS.
I am not at all asking of my personal choice to not pay bribes. I am asking what if I am asked by my seniors to do so for acquiring some benefit for the company.
AGREE. WHO ASKED YOU JOIN? IF YOU JOIN, WHO ASKED/FORCED YOU TO DRINK ALCOHOL ETC AGAINST YOUR WILL
No one can force me to join but what I asked is the acceptance level of such an employee who wants to remain totally isolated from all such social events(involving the mentioned things). Moreover, I believe a HR person may be required to arrange such parties occasionally.
Please perform your PRAYERS-IN-TIME and if you cant due to GENUINE REASONS, you can perform after some time. ALLAH WILL FORGIVE YOU AND REMEMBER HE IS WATCHING EVERYONE.
Brother, presently I am on the verge of completion of my MAHRM and I am also a student of Bachelor of Islamic Studies from an online university and also studying Islam (informally) since the last 4-5 years. What could be the ‘supposed’ genuine reasons for a Muslim male to not offer prayers? Prayers were also offered in the battlefield and as per teachings of Prophet (Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him), if one can’t prayers standing, he must do it sitting, if not sitting, then lying down, if not by lying down, then at least by actions and if that’s also not possible, then the person has to do it in his mind, if he’s conscious and sane.
To nashbramhall
“Point 4 should also be not a problem as people will understand, as shaking hands with a woman is not not normal Indian practice. One can do Namasthe (that does not mean bowing the head), It is just a way of greeting in India.”
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work).
“As India is a Secular country, the organisations just cannot cater to the needs of anyone religious community's requirement. Hence, you will find that certain of the above 12 needs may need to be compromised”
Again, a practicing Muslim can’t compromise point 10 and 11. Those Muslims compromising point 10 and 11 are either ignorant or plainly careless about their faith (i.e., not practicing)
“For example, getting away from meetings to offer prayers in Points 1 and 2. Companies cannot afford o give extra time for prayers and the concerned staff member would be required to work extra time to compensate for the time taken for the prayer.”
Not at all a problem, I thought it was implied in my statement that if I am taking time-off for prayers during work hours, I must necessarily compensate by working over-time. I have no problem in doing so. In fact, it’s the other way round, if I am not doing extra time and getting the same salary (i.e., without deductions), I am dishonest to my employer.
“Regarding Point 2, I wonder what the Quran says about going to a mosque if it is not in the close vicinity!!”
As such there’s nothing in Quran or any other authentic hadith (statement of Prophet) defining the distance of the mosque to be considered valid for offering Jumuah prayers. In fact, as per the majority opinion of the Islamic scholars, a mosque isn’t a necessary requirement for offering Juma’h (Friday) prayers (i.e., in absence of a dedicated mosque, 2 or more Muslims can make a congregation in any place and offer Friday prayers). If the mosque isn’t in close vicinity (that’s the reason I mentioned 45 to 1 hours because I included the traveling time and the actual prayer time), one can just make a congregation of 2 or more Muslims in any place and offer the Jumua’h prayers. Actually, once I get the actual permission to offer prayers, where to offer prayers is flexible in nature and can be decided upon as the respective situation. I only asked of the very permission to go out of the office on every Friday afternoon for 45 mins to max 1 hour.
“I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings. If I have please accept my apologies.”
You aren’t hurting anyone feelings. I genuinely appreciate that you took your time to answer my queries.
To sajidmamba
I wonder which city are you working and which company considers all points from 1 to 12 ? I am delighted to work in such a company
To naziyasm
“Am sorry to say this is not the topic to be discussed on Citehr kindly meet your mosque priest he will guide in context to quran guidelines.”
Its very much to discussed here only because I need the answer from working professionals, not from mosque priest.
“Kindly correct your thinking we dont have muslim by faith or name. Muslim is just a muslim he just needs Hidayat from Allah.”
Brother/Sister, with due respect, I want you to learn more about Islam before commenting on things you don’t know. I am informally studying Islam since the last 4-5 years and since last year, I am doing Bachelor of Islamic Studies. There’s indeed a difference between a Muslim by tongue and a Muslim by Faith. The difference is even mentioned in Qura’n. This is not a place for discussion on Islamic theology. I don’t want to deflect on the original topic. If interested, you can take my email or phone number and we can discuss the same.
“Offering Namaz for five times read farz namaz for that if your work load is heavy.”
Obviously, I am talking of at least Farz namaz. I am not including Sunnah. In 15 minutes, one can only offer Wudu and do 4 Rakaat Farz Namaz.
“Friday namaz u can skip bayan before namaz & it will not take 1 hr right. just request ur management to change ur lunch timings on Friday”
Ofcourse, I am not talking about Bayan, i am just referring to khutbah and the actual namaz. But I also included the distance for going and coming back to Namaz. If you mean the Khutbah (in Arabic) to be Bayan, then sorry that can't be skipped because it is a part of Namaz.
“Fasting is not a problem u can fast.(kindly explain what is the problem in fasting) During fasting we cant ask for concession we have to work as normal day.”
I am never talked of any concession; neither had I wanted a concession of even a single minute. I won’t even have given any sort of concession (except for breaking Iftar) to other Muslims if I were to be a supervisor/superior. I am only asking that what if a ‘very important’ business lunch is scheduled during the month of Ramdaan and I have to deny the request because I am fasting.
“No female will ask u to shake hands. just as samb said do namaste.”
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work). Not only that, I was severely rebuked for being a fanatic and extremist for doing so by a teacher of mine in the university where I study (and guess where I study, it’s Jamia Millia Islamia). And before this scolding, I was rebuked by two other teachers of my college for the same issue (Ironically, one was Muslim amongst the three).
“Keep your records updated then the problem of cheating will not arise.”
Obviously, I will keep my records straight and I am only asking if the seniors would ask me to do some manipulation. Again, I am asking this question because one of my Hindu friends has worked for around 4-5 years as a HR executive in one of the top MNC in Gurgaon and he told me that its common practice to do manipulation and forging of HR audits so that to present a ‘acceptable’ picture to seniors. Again, it might be helping the organization but if it’s a lie, it’s a lie. If it’s cheating, it’s cheating and there’s no compromise on it, period!
“Boss is asking u to forge documents u r not insisting on forge document Allah knows what u r dont worry just pray for ur boss.”
This is not how it works in Islam, Brother/Sister! Allah says, “Help one another in righteousness and piety, but do not help one another in sin and transgression.” Surat Al-Ma'idah, (verse 2). If I assist my boss in doing sin, I would carry the burden of sin on my shoulders. So, I just can’t wash-off my hands by saying it was my boss who asked me to do so. Yes, there are certain things which are obligated by Government of India and I have no choice but to comply with the law of land because it was something which is enforced, not a matter of choice. (For e.g., writing/maintaining the PF/ESI records of employees is sin in Islam because of involvement of Interest/Gambling but since it’s a mandatory requirement of Govt. of India, one has no choice but to do it because he has to do it even in his company)
“we are religious tolerance people no problem in attending or arranging parties. Kindly take help of your mosque cleric he will explain u do's & dont's.”
Please don’t use the word, ‘we’. Talk for yourself. Islam is indeed but there are certain things a Muslim can’t do. I already know the Islamic rulings on the basis of which I am making such points.
“message ur problem in Istakara website they will reply you.”
This is not an issue of Istekhara. Istekhara has to be done in the case of deciding between two equally permissible matters and moreover, one does Istekhara himself (or herself), not asking others to do it. (Anyway, again this is deflecting from the topic)
From India, Mumbai
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To skhadir
In India, its very difficult to find a CLEAN place within an organisation for offering OBLIGATORY PRAYERS. Hence, you may create a SMALL PLACE and keep it CLEAN. At times, you can even PRAY ALONE if, you are not in a position to PRAY-IN-TIME. If you can pray with JAMAT, you can pray ALONE.
You got me wrong brother. Finding a clean place is a requirement for prayers, not an issue which I intended to raise. I was asking of the very permission to pray during the office hours (in office premises or elsewhere). It happened with a female classmate of mine that she was categorically denied to pray in her office on the reasoning that if they allow her to do her prayers in the office, next they have to permit Hindu employees to bring ghanti (prayer bell) in the office and do their Pooja. She was working in a big Indian IT company (99.9% of the people know that company and it is one of the highest ranking organizations in Best Employer Rankings) in Noida as a HR Executive. (I have no problem in naming that company if it’s allowed by citehr rules to do so)
Regarding the meetings, it don't think so, its happening every day between you and your CEO especially during PRAYER HOURS. If it is, you may talk to your CEO and request him to re-schedule the MEETING TIMINGS.
Again, I think I should have made my post more detailed. I wasn’t talking of an actual meeting with a CEO of the company. I was just giving an example that even such an important task of meeting with the CEO wouldn’t relax the obligation for offering prayers for a Muslim. I was implying that what would be the tolerance level of the corporation for such an employee who can avoid every single important work of the organization for his personal religious reasons.
You can avoid it and its not NECESSARY to SHAKE HANDS with FEMALES. NO ONE WILL FORCE/COMPEL YOU TO SHAKE HANDS WITH FEMALES AGAINST YOUR WILL.
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work).
You may request other MUSLIMS NOT TO DO WHICH IS AGAINST THE WILL OF ALLAH
I am not at all concerned what other Muslims might be doing in the same organization. I only want that my employer don’t isolate my actions to tell me that why I am acting ‘extremist’, ‘strange’, while other muslims (in the same organization) aren’t doing so.
if it is HELPING YOUR ORGANISATION, PLEASE DO IT
Again, I am asking this question because one of my Hindu friends has worked for around 4-5 years as a HR executive in one of the top MNC in Gurgaon and he told me that its common practice to do manipulation and forging of HR audits so that to present a ‘acceptable’ picture to seniors. Again, it might be helping the organization but if it’s a lie, it’s a lie. If it’s cheating, its cheating and there’s no compromise on it, period!
AGREE. Its your LIFE, you DECIDE in what way you want to LIVE. You may take support of ANNA HAZARE to get rid of CORRUPTION or to STOP people from PRACTICING UNETHICAL HABITS.
I am not at all asking of my personal choice to not pay bribes. I am asking what if I am asked by my seniors to do so for acquiring some benefit for the company.
AGREE. WHO ASKED YOU JOIN? IF YOU JOIN, WHO ASKED/FORCED YOU TO DRINK ALCOHOL ETC AGAINST YOUR WILL
No one can force me to join but what I asked is the acceptance level of such an employee who wants to remain totally isolated from all such social events(involving the mentioned things). Moreover, I believe a HR person may be required to arrange such parties occasionally.
Please perform your PRAYERS-IN-TIME and if you cant due to GENUINE REASONS, you can perform after some time. ALLAH WILL FORGIVE YOU AND REMEMBER HE IS WATCHING EVERYONE.
Brother, presently I am on the verge of completion of my MAHRM and I am also a student of Bachelor of Islamic Studies from an online university and also studying Islam (informally) since the last 4-5 years. What could be the ‘supposed’ genuine reasons for a Muslim male to not offer prayers? Prayers were also offered in the battlefield and as per teachings of Prophet (Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him), if one can’t prayers standing, he must do it sitting, if not sitting, then lying down, if not by lying down, then at least by actions and if that’s also not possible, then the person has to do it in his mind, if he’s conscious and sane.
To nashbramhall
“Point 4 should also be not a problem as people will understand, as shaking hands with a woman is not not normal Indian practice. One can do Namasthe (that does not mean bowing the head), It is just a way of greeting in India.”
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work).
“As India is a Secular country, the organisations just cannot cater to the needs of anyone religious community's requirement. Hence, you will find that certain of the above 12 needs may need to be compromised”
Again, a practicing Muslim can’t compromise point 10 and 11. Those Muslims compromising point 10 and 11 are either ignorant or plainly careless about their faith (i.e., not practicing)
“For example, getting away from meetings to offer prayers in Points 1 and 2. Companies cannot afford o give extra time for prayers and the concerned staff member would be required to work extra time to compensate for the time taken for the prayer.”
Not at all a problem, I thought it was implied in my statement that if I am taking time-off for prayers during work hours, I must necessarily compensate by working over-time. I have no problem in doing so. In fact, it’s the other way round, if I am not doing extra time and getting the same salary (i.e., without deductions), I am dishonest to my employer.
“Regarding Point 2, I wonder what the Quran says about going to a mosque if it is not in the close vicinity!!”
As such there’s nothing in Quran or any other authentic hadith (statement of Prophet) defining the distance of the mosque to be considered valid for offering Jumuah prayers. In fact, as per the majority opinion of the Islamic scholars, a mosque isn’t a necessary requirement for offering Juma’h (Friday) prayers (i.e., in absence of a dedicated mosque, 2 or more Muslims can make a congregation in any place and offer Friday prayers). If the mosque isn’t in close vicinity (that’s the reason I mentioned 45 to 1 hours because I included the traveling time and the actual prayer time), one can just make a congregation of 2 or more Muslims in any place and offer the Jumua’h prayers. Actually, once I get the actual permission to offer prayers, where to offer prayers is flexible in nature and can be decided upon as the respective situation. I only asked of the very permission to go out of the office on every Friday afternoon for 45 mins to max 1 hour.
“I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings. If I have please accept my apologies.”
You aren’t hurting anyone feelings. I genuinely appreciate that you took your time to answer my queries.
To sajidmamba
I wonder which city are you working and which company considers all points from 1 to 12 ? I am delighted to work in such a company
To naziyasm
“Am sorry to say this is not the topic to be discussed on Citehr kindly meet your mosque priest he will guide in context to quran guidelines.”
Its very much to discussed here only because I need the answer from working professionals, not from mosque priest.
“Kindly correct your thinking we dont have muslim by faith or name. Muslim is just a muslim he just needs Hidayat from Allah.”
Brother/Sister, with due respect, I want you to learn more about Islam before commenting on things you don’t know. I am informally studying Islam since the last 4-5 years and since last year, I am doing Bachelor of Islamic Studies. There’s indeed a difference between a Muslim by tongue and a Muslim by Faith. The difference is even mentioned in Qura’n. This is not a place for discussion on Islamic theology. I don’t want to deflect on the original topic. If interested, you can take my email or phone number and we can discuss the same.
“Offering Namaz for five times read farz namaz for that if your work load is heavy.”
Obviously, I am talking of at least Farz namaz. I am not including Sunnah. In 15 minutes, one can only offer Wudu and do 4 Rakaat Farz Namaz.
“Friday namaz u can skip bayan before namaz & it will not take 1 hr right. just request ur management to change ur lunch timings on Friday”
Ofcourse, I am not talking about Bayan, i am just referring to khutbah and the actual namaz. But I also included the distance for going and coming back to Namaz. If you mean the Khutbah (in Arabic) to be Bayan, then sorry that can't be skipped because it is a part of Namaz.
“Fasting is not a problem u can fast.(kindly explain what is the problem in fasting) During fasting we cant ask for concession we have to work as normal day.”
I am never talked of any concession; neither had I wanted a concession of even a single minute. I won’t even have given any sort of concession (except for breaking Iftar) to other Muslims if I were to be a supervisor/superior. I am only asking that what if a ‘very important’ business lunch is scheduled during the month of Ramdaan and I have to deny the request because I am fasting.
“No female will ask u to shake hands. just as samb said do namaste.”
I was selected as a HR intern in a very big IT company and the HR Head (Male) took me to meet my immediate supervisor (Female) and she forwarded her hand and with all respect, I declined to shake her hands and I was rejected immediately on the grounds that ‘conservative’ people like me are not accepted in his organization and I would present a very bad picture of the organization to prospective employees during interviews. (Again, I can name the HR head and the company and the company proudly present itself as ranked in Top 50 "Best Companies to Work for in India - 2011" by Great Place to Work). Not only that, I was severely rebuked for being a fanatic and extremist for doing so by a teacher of mine in the university where I study (and guess where I study, it’s Jamia Millia Islamia). And before this scolding, I was rebuked by two other teachers of my college for the same issue (Ironically, one was Muslim amongst the three).
“Keep your records updated then the problem of cheating will not arise.”
Obviously, I will keep my records straight and I am only asking if the seniors would ask me to do some manipulation. Again, I am asking this question because one of my Hindu friends has worked for around 4-5 years as a HR executive in one of the top MNC in Gurgaon and he told me that its common practice to do manipulation and forging of HR audits so that to present a ‘acceptable’ picture to seniors. Again, it might be helping the organization but if it’s a lie, it’s a lie. If it’s cheating, it’s cheating and there’s no compromise on it, period!
“Boss is asking u to forge documents u r not insisting on forge document Allah knows what u r dont worry just pray for ur boss.”
This is not how it works in Islam, Brother/Sister! Allah says, “Help one another in righteousness and piety, but do not help one another in sin and transgression.” Surat Al-Ma'idah, (verse 2). If I assist my boss in doing sin, I would carry the burden of sin on my shoulders. So, I just can’t wash-off my hands by saying it was my boss who asked me to do so. Yes, there are certain things which are obligated by Government of India and I have no choice but to comply with the law of land because it was something which is enforced, not a matter of choice. (For e.g., writing/maintaining the PF/ESI records of employees is sin in Islam because of involvement of Interest/Gambling but since it’s a mandatory requirement of Govt. of India, one has no choice but to do it because he has to do it even in his company)
“we are religious tolerance people no problem in attending or arranging parties. Kindly take help of your mosque cleric he will explain u do's & dont's.”
Please don’t use the word, ‘we’. Talk for yourself. Islam is indeed but there are certain things a Muslim can’t do. I already know the Islamic rulings on the basis of which I am making such points.
“message ur problem in Istakara website they will reply you.”
This is not an issue of Istekhara. Istekhara has to be done in the case of deciding between two equally permissible matters and moreover, one does Istekhara himself (or herself), not asking others to do it. (Anyway, again this is deflecting from the topic)
From India, Mumbai
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Whether it's a religious issue or a personal matter is not the area of discussion here. What is important is that it is an issue causing difficulty for PeacePromoter and is a matter of concern for his professional life. It's good that he has the courage to openly ask it to all. The only thing we need to do regarding his question is to give our suggestions to him. Let him decide which one is best for him.
Moreover, his question pertains to an "Indian Corporation," not a corporation primarily driven by another religion, although it may appear to be so. Otherwise, he would have asked with respect to any organization in the world! I feel Sajid Muhammed from Kannur has given a very nice answer. Also, in my view, whether we are from X Religion or Y Religion, we are human beings primarily, and just as each individual has different ideas, a group of individuals follows different religions. Similarly, an organization is also made up of a group of individuals who work towards a common goal and have rules and regulations, just like one has dos and don'ts prescribed by religious texts.
What one needs to do is balance his personal and professional life. In this situation, I feel that whichever Indian corporation PeacePromoter would want to join, it is essential for him to study that organization in detail (its vision, practices, rules, etc.) before he goes for the interview. He should also put forth his requirements to the interview panel and see if a feasible solution (that satisfies both the applicant and the company) can be arrived at.
Personally, I don't think it's a big issue. Here, we have a person who wants to practice his beliefs while excelling in his professional life. He just needs to choose the right organization. That's it! I'm extremely sorry and apologize if I have hurt anyone in the process of sharing my views.
Regards,
Neel.
From India, Bangalore
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Moreover, his question pertains to an "Indian Corporation," not a corporation primarily driven by another religion, although it may appear to be so. Otherwise, he would have asked with respect to any organization in the world! I feel Sajid Muhammed from Kannur has given a very nice answer. Also, in my view, whether we are from X Religion or Y Religion, we are human beings primarily, and just as each individual has different ideas, a group of individuals follows different religions. Similarly, an organization is also made up of a group of individuals who work towards a common goal and have rules and regulations, just like one has dos and don'ts prescribed by religious texts.
What one needs to do is balance his personal and professional life. In this situation, I feel that whichever Indian corporation PeacePromoter would want to join, it is essential for him to study that organization in detail (its vision, practices, rules, etc.) before he goes for the interview. He should also put forth his requirements to the interview panel and see if a feasible solution (that satisfies both the applicant and the company) can be arrived at.
Personally, I don't think it's a big issue. Here, we have a person who wants to practice his beliefs while excelling in his professional life. He just needs to choose the right organization. That's it! I'm extremely sorry and apologize if I have hurt anyone in the process of sharing my views.
Regards,
Neel.
From India, Bangalore
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It is a generalized statement, applicable to all Muslims and proven by Quran and authentic Sunnah. No person becomes a Muslim just because he/she was born to Muslim parents. One has to have the genuine faith (i.e., one is making an informed decision to accept Islam, irrespective of the faith of his parents) accompanied by righteous actions and prohibition of sinful ones.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
I know they shouldn't but I want to ask what if they would
Yes, you have used the correct word. I was actually 'blasted' by the HR head who was taking my interview (and denied the position of intern, not even a job) then by my teacher in front of the entire class for not shaking hands.
That's what I am asking. Because i was informed by 2 friends of mine (both from different organizations) there use to manipulations in statements, one was eating Pizza from HR funds.
Yes, no one should but still my boss can ask me to do so for relative of his/her.
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
Yes, this is what i want that no one should force me to do so and I can depute a person for the same. But will it actually work in today's corporate environment ?
What I do in such parties is of next level. My presence in such parties is itself considered approval of the same. This is how it works in Islamic law.
Yes, this is what I want that they shouldn't come. Although, technically speaking, this point is less serious that all the above.
Brother, when you don't know the situation of others, don't become judgmental. I am not making a hue and cry out of nothing. I have been discriminated on the basis of religious reasons, that's the reason i am seeking the experience of others. Read my posts above and you will understand the context. I am a hard working individual and can be an asset to the organization but come what may, i simply can't compromise on the above points.
I am double postgraduate (2 years full time PDGM from an AICTE institute + Distance Mode MBA) in management (with HR and IT as specialization) and doing my 3rd full time post-graduate in Human Resource Management. I am also UGC NET-JRF qualified. As of now, campus placement is ongoing in my department. I have to make a choice to sit or not to sit for placements. If I am not sitting, i would be looking for teaching posts in some college/university.
Hence, i came on this forum to ask questions from working professionals so that I can make an informed choice. If no organization can accept me with my religious considerations, then its no point appearing for campus placements.
From India, Mumbai
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Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
I know they shouldn't but I want to ask what if they would
Yes, you have used the correct word. I was actually 'blasted' by the HR head who was taking my interview (and denied the position of intern, not even a job) then by my teacher in front of the entire class for not shaking hands.
That's what I am asking. Because i was informed by 2 friends of mine (both from different organizations) there use to manipulations in statements, one was eating Pizza from HR funds.
Yes, no one should but still my boss can ask me to do so for relative of his/her.
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
Yes, this is what i want that no one should force me to do so and I can depute a person for the same. But will it actually work in today's corporate environment ?
What I do in such parties is of next level. My presence in such parties is itself considered approval of the same. This is how it works in Islamic law.
Yes, this is what I want that they shouldn't come. Although, technically speaking, this point is less serious that all the above.
Brother, when you don't know the situation of others, don't become judgmental. I am not making a hue and cry out of nothing. I have been discriminated on the basis of religious reasons, that's the reason i am seeking the experience of others. Read my posts above and you will understand the context. I am a hard working individual and can be an asset to the organization but come what may, i simply can't compromise on the above points.
I am double postgraduate (2 years full time PDGM from an AICTE institute + Distance Mode MBA) in management (with HR and IT as specialization) and doing my 3rd full time post-graduate in Human Resource Management. I am also UGC NET-JRF qualified. As of now, campus placement is ongoing in my department. I have to make a choice to sit or not to sit for placements. If I am not sitting, i would be looking for teaching posts in some college/university.
Hence, i came on this forum to ask questions from working professionals so that I can make an informed choice. If no organization can accept me with my religious considerations, then its no point appearing for campus placements.
From India, Mumbai
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My dear brother,
I have gone through your clarifications and i agree to most of your points stated. One thing i want to tell you in SHORT & SWEET. "Eversince the ALMIGHTY ALLAH had created this world, NOTHING HAD CHANGED except HUMAN'S PERCEPTION LEVEL and it is due to ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY"
You know very well the "ROLE PLAYED BY SHAITAAN". He will always create problems for MUSLIM'S.
What i believe is that, if someone is feeling uncomfortable by your behaviour, please do make him explain(effective communication) about ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE. I seriously don't think so and i really wonder whether, are there people who haven't UNDERSTOOD ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE being PRACTICE BY MUSLIMS? The whole world is EXPOSED TO THE ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE besides ISLAAM doesn't HARM ANYONE.
If you are really not happy with INDIAN ORGANISATIONS, please do search for better opportunity in SAUDI ARABIA and i am sure you will get one by the grace of ALMIGHTY.
I had worked in SAUDI ARABIA am employed in QATAR. I don't have any issues with my employer related to ISMAALIC(RELIGIOUS) ACTIVITIES. Infact we get reminded by our colleagues to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS when we are struck in important assignments and we are PERMITTED TO OFFER PRAYERS IN-TIME.
If i am/was wrong, please do correct me. May ALMIGHTY help you to live a ISLAAMIC LIFE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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I have gone through your clarifications and i agree to most of your points stated. One thing i want to tell you in SHORT & SWEET. "Eversince the ALMIGHTY ALLAH had created this world, NOTHING HAD CHANGED except HUMAN'S PERCEPTION LEVEL and it is due to ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY"
You know very well the "ROLE PLAYED BY SHAITAAN". He will always create problems for MUSLIM'S.
What i believe is that, if someone is feeling uncomfortable by your behaviour, please do make him explain(effective communication) about ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE. I seriously don't think so and i really wonder whether, are there people who haven't UNDERSTOOD ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE being PRACTICE BY MUSLIMS? The whole world is EXPOSED TO THE ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE besides ISLAAM doesn't HARM ANYONE.
If you are really not happy with INDIAN ORGANISATIONS, please do search for better opportunity in SAUDI ARABIA and i am sure you will get one by the grace of ALMIGHTY.
I had worked in SAUDI ARABIA am employed in QATAR. I don't have any issues with my employer related to ISMAALIC(RELIGIOUS) ACTIVITIES. Infact we get reminded by our colleagues to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS when we are struck in important assignments and we are PERMITTED TO OFFER PRAYERS IN-TIME.
If i am/was wrong, please do correct me. May ALMIGHTY help you to live a ISLAAMIC LIFE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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JazakAllah for your response, Brother. I duly appreciate it. Ofcourse, the role of devil is everywhere to be found (My Non-muslim brothers and sisters, please understand we aren’t calling you as ‘Devils’. The devil referred here is a non-human creation called jinn which creates problems for Muslims in worshiping God.). Actually, if I simply put it, Islam is Deen and Deen is way of life. A practicing Muslim is Muslim in all times and at all places. Work is also part of the larger circumference of Ibadaat (i.e., worship) in Islam and one can’t deliberately indulge in making his earning Haraam.
Brother, when the other person is so prejudiced that he’s not interested to listen then what’s left to explain ? The HR head who rejected me didn’t give me a minute to explain and understand. I maintained my patience and calm and then vacated the place when he was done with his words.
Brother, I don’t blame at all for people not understanding the Islamic lifestyle. I only blame us Muslims for not practicing Islam and making the non-muslims develop stereotypes of Muslims on the basis of non-practicing Muslims. I am studying in Jamia Millia Islamia, half of my class is of Muslims. No one else except me has a problem shaking the hands of the females. Most of them don’t even offer Salah. Most of the Muslims working here in corporations are like such. Hence, out of nowhere, a Muslim appears for an interview and declines to shake hands with the female interviewer, it is bound to happen the interview may think that I am some type of ‘fanatic’, ‘fundamentalist’, ‘conservative’ or ‘extremist’ amongst the lot and hence they may decline my candidature on the fear that I may spoil their corporate culture (this is exactly what was told to me by the person who declined taking me as an intern in his organization)
Brother, I would be glad to work in KSA and I have tried searching there. The problem is that I am a fresher and don’t have any experience other than 8 months teaching experience in an institute. Be it bayt, jobsindubai, gulftalent, a fresher can’t get a job there. Even through local placement agents, they need an experienced candidate for both industry and academic jobs.
If you know some contacts through which I can get a job in KSA, please do let me know. I would be extremely grateful.
From India, Mumbai
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Brother, when the other person is so prejudiced that he’s not interested to listen then what’s left to explain ? The HR head who rejected me didn’t give me a minute to explain and understand. I maintained my patience and calm and then vacated the place when he was done with his words.
Brother, I don’t blame at all for people not understanding the Islamic lifestyle. I only blame us Muslims for not practicing Islam and making the non-muslims develop stereotypes of Muslims on the basis of non-practicing Muslims. I am studying in Jamia Millia Islamia, half of my class is of Muslims. No one else except me has a problem shaking the hands of the females. Most of them don’t even offer Salah. Most of the Muslims working here in corporations are like such. Hence, out of nowhere, a Muslim appears for an interview and declines to shake hands with the female interviewer, it is bound to happen the interview may think that I am some type of ‘fanatic’, ‘fundamentalist’, ‘conservative’ or ‘extremist’ amongst the lot and hence they may decline my candidature on the fear that I may spoil their corporate culture (this is exactly what was told to me by the person who declined taking me as an intern in his organization)
Brother, I would be glad to work in KSA and I have tried searching there. The problem is that I am a fresher and don’t have any experience other than 8 months teaching experience in an institute. Be it bayt, jobsindubai, gulftalent, a fresher can’t get a job there. Even through local placement agents, they need an experienced candidate for both industry and academic jobs.
If you know some contacts through which I can get a job in KSA, please do let me know. I would be extremely grateful.
From India, Mumbai
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[QUOTE=neel.chowbal;1765729]Whether it's a religious issue or a personal matter is not the area of discussion here. What is important is that it is an issue causing difficulty for PeacePromoter and is a matter of concern for his professional life. It's good that he has the courage to openly ask it to all.
Thank you, Mr. Neel. This is what I intended when I posted my questions. It is indeed a matter of concern for my professional life and the choices I need to make (i.e., to decide between Industry and Academics).
I also want that the answer of Sajid Mohammad should become reality with all organizations. Yet, in reality, this is not the case. I face prejudice, and that's the reason I have created the post in the first place.
It's a good suggestion, but I wonder if there exists any organization which categorically mentions that we won't accept anyone who declines shaking hands with females. I don't know how it would sound to the interviewer if I ask him/her straightforward if they could accept me as an employee with my restrictions. Yet, I have no choice but to ask the interviewer the same.
Well, having been rejected on the basis of this issue, it's a big issue for me. And I would be glad to know of such organizations (in New Delhi) that can accommodate me with my religious practices.
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you, Mr. Neel. This is what I intended when I posted my questions. It is indeed a matter of concern for my professional life and the choices I need to make (i.e., to decide between Industry and Academics).
I also want that the answer of Sajid Mohammad should become reality with all organizations. Yet, in reality, this is not the case. I face prejudice, and that's the reason I have created the post in the first place.
It's a good suggestion, but I wonder if there exists any organization which categorically mentions that we won't accept anyone who declines shaking hands with females. I don't know how it would sound to the interviewer if I ask him/her straightforward if they could accept me as an employee with my restrictions. Yet, I have no choice but to ask the interviewer the same.
Well, having been rejected on the basis of this issue, it's a big issue for me. And I would be glad to know of such organizations (in New Delhi) that can accommodate me with my religious practices.
From India, Mumbai
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My dear brother,
I suggest you continue with your job rather than taking it seriously. You can continue to behave the way you like; if anyone is objecting, LET THEM DO SO. Your behavior is not going to cause harm to anyone, nor is anyone going to incur any kind of loss. I don't want to write anything more, though it is very useful information, but I know there are narrow-minded professionals (xyz) who will not accept it as genuine information, similar to those whom you have met until now.
Please complete your one year, Inshaa ALLAH, ALLAH itself will do something for you. I am just a human being.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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I suggest you continue with your job rather than taking it seriously. You can continue to behave the way you like; if anyone is objecting, LET THEM DO SO. Your behavior is not going to cause harm to anyone, nor is anyone going to incur any kind of loss. I don't want to write anything more, though it is very useful information, but I know there are narrow-minded professionals (xyz) who will not accept it as genuine information, similar to those whom you have met until now.
Please complete your one year, Inshaa ALLAH, ALLAH itself will do something for you. I am just a human being.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Thank you for your kind consideration. I am not doing any job right now. I am a full-time student of Masters in HRM in the 4th semester. The time of campus placement has started, and we are contacting different companies for the same. We are expecting quite a few recruiters. I have to make a choice to sit for the interviews or opt for applying as a lecturer in management institutes.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Peace promoter,
Thank you for your response. I worked in India over 40 years ago. I am retired now. In how many organisations did you find that you were rejected for not shaking hands? A single experience should not deter you from searching. It does not matter how large a company is or how famous. Companies, as far as I know, do not have any written policies on "Shaking hands" or attending parties. However, avoiding meetings at certain hours may not be possible.
Please tell me in which country there is no discrimination for people who are different. Non-Islamists face discrimination in Islamic countries; non-Christians truly following their faith face some sort of problems in Christian countries, "Whites" may face discrimination in a predominantly "Black" nation, etc. In the 1960s, people who emigrated to the UK had to face a lot of discrimination; life is much better now.
Please also see Expat Workers Treatment By Saudis; How Expats are treated in Saudi Arabia and discuss with others who are in SA or returned from SA before you decide to emigrate.
I am sure there are organizations in India which take a different stand than the one that you have experienced. The organizations that Peer Mohamed Sardhar has worked for, for that matter.
I am not competent to comment on the religious beliefs of anyone.
Wish you all the best in your search for internship/employment.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Thank you for your response. I worked in India over 40 years ago. I am retired now. In how many organisations did you find that you were rejected for not shaking hands? A single experience should not deter you from searching. It does not matter how large a company is or how famous. Companies, as far as I know, do not have any written policies on "Shaking hands" or attending parties. However, avoiding meetings at certain hours may not be possible.
Please tell me in which country there is no discrimination for people who are different. Non-Islamists face discrimination in Islamic countries; non-Christians truly following their faith face some sort of problems in Christian countries, "Whites" may face discrimination in a predominantly "Black" nation, etc. In the 1960s, people who emigrated to the UK had to face a lot of discrimination; life is much better now.
Please also see Expat Workers Treatment By Saudis; How Expats are treated in Saudi Arabia and discuss with others who are in SA or returned from SA before you decide to emigrate.
I am sure there are organizations in India which take a different stand than the one that you have experienced. The organizations that Peer Mohamed Sardhar has worked for, for that matter.
I am not competent to comment on the religious beliefs of anyone.
Wish you all the best in your search for internship/employment.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear Simhan,
I have been made to feel by my teachers (in the institute I study) and by my classmate (having 4-5 years of work experience as an HR Manager) that I shouldn't go for industry jobs because with my religious restrictions, I would face discrimination as a norm, rather than an exception. Hence, I came to this forum to know if this is a norm or an exception. Anyway, reading the replies, I believe what happened with me was an exception, rather than the norm.
I agree that everyone faces discrimination in some way or another in some place or another. I also agree with the condition in Saudi Arabia; my friends and relatives have testified to it.
I only needed to know the tolerance level towards such a person who comes with such a baggage of religious beliefs because I am in my final semester and I have to make a career choice between going for industry or academics.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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I have been made to feel by my teachers (in the institute I study) and by my classmate (having 4-5 years of work experience as an HR Manager) that I shouldn't go for industry jobs because with my religious restrictions, I would face discrimination as a norm, rather than an exception. Hence, I came to this forum to know if this is a norm or an exception. Anyway, reading the replies, I believe what happened with me was an exception, rather than the norm.
I agree that everyone faces discrimination in some way or another in some place or another. I also agree with the condition in Saudi Arabia; my friends and relatives have testified to it.
I only needed to know the tolerance level towards such a person who comes with such a baggage of religious beliefs because I am in my final semester and I have to make a career choice between going for industry or academics.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Peacepromoter,
I would sincerely advise you to gain some industrial experience before delving into academia. Could you kindly elaborate on the conditions in SA that your friends and relatives have testified to, for the benefit of other bloggers?
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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I would sincerely advise you to gain some industrial experience before delving into academia. Could you kindly elaborate on the conditions in SA that your friends and relatives have testified to, for the benefit of other bloggers?
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Yes, I think I have to try a few other organizations before going into academics. I was referring to the discrimination faced by non-westerners. I came to know from multiple people that Indians (irrespective of their religion), Pakistanis, Filipinos, Malays, Indonesians face discrimination in terms of pay and benefits compared to a westerner in the same post with the same academic qualifications and work experience. Although it is absolutely contradictory to Islamic tenets, unfortunately, it's a harsh reality faced by many. I also agree that one should never argue with a Saudi; otherwise, he should prepare for real trouble. There are many such cases; I have to open a new thread to discuss all of them.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Peace Promoter,
Whatever you have received as information from your friends and relatives is the fact and it's common in the Middle East. Perhaps you haven't received information about those expatriates living in Western countries or any other foreign countries. I would say that it's a psychological war between the natives and foreigners. For example, just imagine, will Westerners allow non-Westerners to take the lead in their own country? Never.
"A lion cannot rule in another lion's den."
Perhaps, it will take time for you to understand the nature of humans living in different parts of this world, brother. Please do not allow information that sounds negative to be stored in your brain, nor give it high importance. It's the responsibility of every human to demonstrate humanity. But, it's not happening to the level as it is expected.
Till doomsday, there will be good and bad. We have to learn to survive in this world as long as we are alive.
Please do not think too much, else you will not be able to live with peace of mind. Just do your job and leave everything to Almighty Allah. It's my sincere advice to you.
With profound regards,
"Yes, I think I have to try a few other organizations before going into academics.
I was referring to the discrimination faced by non-Westerners. I came to know from multiple people that Indians (irrespective of their religion), Pakistanis, Filipinos, Malays, Indonesians face discrimination in terms of pay and benefits as compared to a Westerner in the same post and with the same academic qualification and work experience. Although it is absolutely contradictory to Islamic tenets, unfortunately, it's a harsh reality faced by many. I also agree that one should never argue with a Saudi; otherwise, he should prepare for real trouble. There are many such cases; I have to open a new thread to discuss all of them."
From India, Chennai
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Whatever you have received as information from your friends and relatives is the fact and it's common in the Middle East. Perhaps you haven't received information about those expatriates living in Western countries or any other foreign countries. I would say that it's a psychological war between the natives and foreigners. For example, just imagine, will Westerners allow non-Westerners to take the lead in their own country? Never.
"A lion cannot rule in another lion's den."
Perhaps, it will take time for you to understand the nature of humans living in different parts of this world, brother. Please do not allow information that sounds negative to be stored in your brain, nor give it high importance. It's the responsibility of every human to demonstrate humanity. But, it's not happening to the level as it is expected.
Till doomsday, there will be good and bad. We have to learn to survive in this world as long as we are alive.
Please do not think too much, else you will not be able to live with peace of mind. Just do your job and leave everything to Almighty Allah. It's my sincere advice to you.
With profound regards,
"Yes, I think I have to try a few other organizations before going into academics.
I was referring to the discrimination faced by non-Westerners. I came to know from multiple people that Indians (irrespective of their religion), Pakistanis, Filipinos, Malays, Indonesians face discrimination in terms of pay and benefits as compared to a Westerner in the same post and with the same academic qualification and work experience. Although it is absolutely contradictory to Islamic tenets, unfortunately, it's a harsh reality faced by many. I also agree that one should never argue with a Saudi; otherwise, he should prepare for real trouble. There are many such cases; I have to open a new thread to discuss all of them."
From India, Chennai
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Dear Shaik Abdul,
Things have changed in the West. There are Asians holding CEO positions in large organizations; some examples can be found at In Pictures: Eight Indian CEOs At Big U.S. Companies - Vikram Pandit - Forbes.com. A number of my friends have held managerial positions in America, hold high positions in American Universities, and are professors in the UK. I have no idea about the situation in other countries.
However, it used to be different 20-30 years ago. It was even difficult to find accommodation in certain areas, and the same is true even now in conservative areas. People learned to survive and progress by educating ourselves to be better qualified than the locals.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Things have changed in the West. There are Asians holding CEO positions in large organizations; some examples can be found at In Pictures: Eight Indian CEOs At Big U.S. Companies - Vikram Pandit - Forbes.com. A number of my friends have held managerial positions in America, hold high positions in American Universities, and are professors in the UK. I have no idea about the situation in other countries.
However, it used to be different 20-30 years ago. It was even difficult to find accommodation in certain areas, and the same is true even now in conservative areas. People learned to survive and progress by educating ourselves to be better qualified than the locals.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear Mr. Simhan,
I do agree with you; however, wherever there is a PROPORTIONAL or HIGH DEMAND, in lieu of LOCAL'S, EXPATRIATE'S are hired. Even this is found in the MIDDLE EAST, but honestly speaking, in certain areas, even though EXPATRIATE's hold THE TOP MOST POSITION, they are just similar to other EMPLOYEES, maybe authorized with certain POWERS subject to BOUNDARY OF OPERATIONS (LIMITATIONS). Hope you agree with the facts because there are LIMITATIONS.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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I do agree with you; however, wherever there is a PROPORTIONAL or HIGH DEMAND, in lieu of LOCAL'S, EXPATRIATE'S are hired. Even this is found in the MIDDLE EAST, but honestly speaking, in certain areas, even though EXPATRIATE's hold THE TOP MOST POSITION, they are just similar to other EMPLOYEES, maybe authorized with certain POWERS subject to BOUNDARY OF OPERATIONS (LIMITATIONS). Hope you agree with the facts because there are LIMITATIONS.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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The CEOs I have quoted are exceptions. Similarly, the list of prominent Indians in the list at List of Indian Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
In general, you are right; minorities face problems wherever they may be.
From United Kingdom
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In general, you are right; minorities face problems wherever they may be.
From United Kingdom
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Dear Peace Promoter,
What I felt was that humans across the globe are victims of a preconceived mindset, which is inherited and difficult to change unless they accept the truth as truth itself. Hence, such bad activities are challenging to control. Nevertheless, hard work is in progress to make humans realize the facts, which are nothing but the truth. Many generations have passed, and there were very few scholars who studied Islam with an objective and its relevance to human mankind, explaining why it was prescribed to be followed strictly. Muslims themselves, belonging to other parts of the world (apart from Arab nations), later understood the facts when great scholars like Dr. Zakir Naik first started describing the authentic facts and bridging the gap (misunderstandings/misconceptions) between Muslims and non-Muslims about the God/Allah that we humans worship. This was followed by Mr. Ahmed Deedat, Mr. Yassir Fazaga, Mr. Yosuf Estes, and many more.
It will take time for humans to understand Islam and its benefits. What needs to be changed is the mindset, which is nothing but a strong belief.
It is we humans who are responsible for everything, as we have created our own cultures based not on facts but on individual comfort styles. We don't accept ourselves as humans first but categorize ourselves in many ways.
Kindly correct me if I am wrong.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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What I felt was that humans across the globe are victims of a preconceived mindset, which is inherited and difficult to change unless they accept the truth as truth itself. Hence, such bad activities are challenging to control. Nevertheless, hard work is in progress to make humans realize the facts, which are nothing but the truth. Many generations have passed, and there were very few scholars who studied Islam with an objective and its relevance to human mankind, explaining why it was prescribed to be followed strictly. Muslims themselves, belonging to other parts of the world (apart from Arab nations), later understood the facts when great scholars like Dr. Zakir Naik first started describing the authentic facts and bridging the gap (misunderstandings/misconceptions) between Muslims and non-Muslims about the God/Allah that we humans worship. This was followed by Mr. Ahmed Deedat, Mr. Yassir Fazaga, Mr. Yosuf Estes, and many more.
It will take time for humans to understand Islam and its benefits. What needs to be changed is the mindset, which is nothing but a strong belief.
It is we humans who are responsible for everything, as we have created our own cultures based not on facts but on individual comfort styles. We don't accept ourselves as humans first but categorize ourselves in many ways.
Kindly correct me if I am wrong.
With profound regards,
From India, Chennai
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Dear PeacePromoter,
You are right to say that we have digressed. That's what happens when one moves from the topic in a public forum. However, in order to impress upon people that discrimination in whatever form is inherent in humans, we have to give examples from other areas.
As I have been away from India for a long time, I can't express opinions on the current situation in India. However, since there are MNCs in India, discrimination may not be a company policy but could be followed by individual managers. It's not advisable to name organizations in a public forum.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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You are right to say that we have digressed. That's what happens when one moves from the topic in a public forum. However, in order to impress upon people that discrimination in whatever form is inherent in humans, we have to give examples from other areas.
As I have been away from India for a long time, I can't express opinions on the current situation in India. However, since there are MNCs in India, discrimination may not be a company policy but could be followed by individual managers. It's not advisable to name organizations in a public forum.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Dear Brother,
I am sorry for the misunderstanding. Istakhara website has a team of professionals as well. Thanks to all those who corrected me for my lack of knowledge.
I don't think consulting a priest is a wrong suggestion. Most of the time, I consult my senior priest, so I suggested it.
Dear Khadir,
I have knowledge of Islam; I hope you know that. I may be wrong in a few understandings. By the way, thanks for the clarification.
From India, Bangalore
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I am sorry for the misunderstanding. Istakhara website has a team of professionals as well. Thanks to all those who corrected me for my lack of knowledge.
I don't think consulting a priest is a wrong suggestion. Most of the time, I consult my senior priest, so I suggested it.
Dear Khadir,
I have knowledge of Islam; I hope you know that. I may be wrong in a few understandings. By the way, thanks for the clarification.
From India, Bangalore
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Peace and greetings to everyone,
I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice. To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not all, but most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims, and it's only a matter of racial creed rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing rather than people of different faith and ideologies.
In Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic prefix 'mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as mu + safar = musafir (traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler, and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context.
Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering namaz (prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 minutes, twice/thrice during office hours (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't miss a single time namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 minutes to 1 hour, and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't miss Friday namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
4. Not shaking hands with females - as strange or rude as it may read, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., a Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
11. A Muslim can't attend or be a part of the following parties/celebrations - birthdays, New Year, religious festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
12. A Muslim must get a day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.
I only want to ask, what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
I agree with Mr. Nashbramhall and others. You can manage with many of the privileges but not all. This applies to Hindus living in Australia. You may have to sacrifice some to manage a better life with others. Sharing/caring with others is more important for any religion.
Regards,
Leo Lingham
From India, Mumbai
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I request maximum response to my queries as it would directly influence my career choice. To begin with, for those who aren't aware (both Muslims and non-Muslims), there's a difference between a Muslim by name and a Muslim by faith. If not all, but most of the Muslims today are only Muslims because their fathers (parents) were Muslims, and it's only a matter of racial creed rather than having faith in the religion of Islam. Hence, most of the Muslims you see around in corporations are only people of different 'cultural' upbringing rather than people of different faith and ideologies.
In Arabic lexicon, a Muslim can only be a person who practices Islam. It is formulated by the Arabic prefix 'mu' with Islam = Muslim. Same as mu + safar = musafir (traveler). One who is a resident can't be called a traveler, and technically, one who is not practicing Islam can't be called a Muslim. Anyway, this was a very brief introduction of the things I am going to write now. It was necessary to give a small background so that people could understand the context.
Now, I am mentioning the actual requirements for a practicing Muslim man (which are defined by the Quran and the authentic statements of Prophet Mohammad) which might conflict with the corporate culture.
(Not in any chronological order)
1. Offering namaz (prayers) - it requires a clean place and at least 15 minutes, twice/thrice during office hours (depending on the time one stays in the office. If he stays late till 6 or 7, it would be thrice a day). A practicing Muslim can't miss a single time namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
2. Going for prayers to a mosque on Friday (if the mosque is in close vicinity of the office) - it would require not less than 45 minutes to 1 hour, and the time would be Friday afternoon. Again, a practicing Muslim can't miss Friday namaz even if he's in a very important meeting with the CEO of the company.
3. Fasting for 30 days in the month of Ramadan - here the Muslim can't even drink a drop of water, not fruits, not potatoes, not even a morsel of any food from dawn to dusk.
4. Not shaking hands with females - as strange or rude as it may read, but a practicing Muslim is prohibited from shaking hands with unrelated females.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., a Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show any favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
10. A Muslim can't be a part of any party involving alcohol, drugs, music, and mixed dancing. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
11. A Muslim can't attend or be a part of the following parties/celebrations - birthdays, New Year, religious festivals, etc. A Muslim can't even arrange such parties.
12. A Muslim must get a day off on two Eids, Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.
I only want to ask, what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above.
I agree with Mr. Nashbramhall and others. You can manage with many of the privileges but not all. This applies to Hindus living in Australia. You may have to sacrifice some to manage a better life with others. Sharing/caring with others is more important for any religion.
Regards,
Leo Lingham
From India, Mumbai
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Oh my God, such a big post. I don't want to raise an issue, but I know of a Muslim doctor who would treat patients rather than making them wait during Namaz timings. Similarly, there are lots of Muslims working as doctors, firefighters, police, and in other emergency jobs where they put duty before religion. God will surely help them. All the best.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Yes, in case of medical or any other emergencies, Muslims not only can but 'should' delay the Salaah (Namaz) and attend to the emergency. Please don't mix up things; these are two different situations.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear PeacePromoter,
Glad to know that in an emergency, Namaz can and should be delayed. I was sure that all religious practices are flexible and agree with the following:
"What is duty under these prevailing conditions may not be duty under different conditions. Desha, kala, paristhiti (place, time, and condition) decide the nature of what we are expected to do, so that we cannot have a textbook of the nature of duty anywhere in the world. We have to use our common sense, our feeling, and our understanding. Understanding is the word that will be underlined when we move forward through the chapters of the Bhagavad Gita. The word buddhi, reason, is emphasized always." The Doctrine of the Bhagavad Gita - To Thine Own Self Be True - Chapter 7
From United Kingdom
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Glad to know that in an emergency, Namaz can and should be delayed. I was sure that all religious practices are flexible and agree with the following:
"What is duty under these prevailing conditions may not be duty under different conditions. Desha, kala, paristhiti (place, time, and condition) decide the nature of what we are expected to do, so that we cannot have a textbook of the nature of duty anywhere in the world. We have to use our common sense, our feeling, and our understanding. Understanding is the word that will be underlined when we move forward through the chapters of the Bhagavad Gita. The word buddhi, reason, is emphasized always." The Doctrine of the Bhagavad Gita - To Thine Own Self Be True - Chapter 7
From United Kingdom
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Dear PeacePromoter,
"What is duty under these prevailing conditions may not be duty under different conditions. Desha, kala, paristhiti (place, time, and condition) decide the nature of what we are expected to do."
I agree with this line (in the context of Islam), but don't agree with the idea that we can't have a textbook. We actually have a textbook, and that textbook is called the Quran. We also have a teacher or implementer of that textbook, whom we call the Prophet. For all the things not explicitly mentioned in the above two sources, we have certain general principles derived from the sources and codified into a brand of Islamic sciences called 'Fiqh' (Islamic jurisprudence). Contrary to popular perception, Fiqh is dynamic in nature and does incorporate changes.
In case of emergencies, we can eat pork and drink alcohol, and this is even explicitly mentioned in the Quran. I mention this not as a layman or my 'own' understanding of Islam but as a formal student of Bachelor of Islamic Studies.
From India, Mumbai
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"What is duty under these prevailing conditions may not be duty under different conditions. Desha, kala, paristhiti (place, time, and condition) decide the nature of what we are expected to do."
I agree with this line (in the context of Islam), but don't agree with the idea that we can't have a textbook. We actually have a textbook, and that textbook is called the Quran. We also have a teacher or implementer of that textbook, whom we call the Prophet. For all the things not explicitly mentioned in the above two sources, we have certain general principles derived from the sources and codified into a brand of Islamic sciences called 'Fiqh' (Islamic jurisprudence). Contrary to popular perception, Fiqh is dynamic in nature and does incorporate changes.
In case of emergencies, we can eat pork and drink alcohol, and this is even explicitly mentioned in the Quran. I mention this not as a layman or my 'own' understanding of Islam but as a formal student of Bachelor of Islamic Studies.
From India, Mumbai
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One should not take everything literally. When it says "We can't have a textbook..." it does not mean we can't have Quran or a teacher. But we should use our judgment given the circumstances. Are not different teachers interpreting the text in different ways, giving rise to different sects imposing their own will on others.
I am really heartened to note that in certain circumstances you are even allowed to eat pork and drink alcohol, as I have Muslim friends who drink alcohol.
From United Kingdom
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I am really heartened to note that in certain circumstances you are even allowed to eat pork and drink alcohol, as I have Muslim friends who drink alcohol.
From United Kingdom
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Now, my dear friend, please try to understand that just as a patient is important to a doctor, saving lives is important to a firefighter, and a CEO or boss is important to an office-going person as he is the one who must answer if work is not done on time.
Your mention in the first post of "even if he is busy with the CEO in a meeting" is entirely baseless. When you agree to doctors' emergencies, then you should also accept that for your company, during important meetings, interviews, or discussions that occur during the day and if they fall during Namaz time or Friday, they are more important than prayer and require your time.
Until you realize this and change your mindset, it won't do you any good. Because in all these situations, you are the only one who will suffer. I lived all my childhood in a Mughal-dominated city (won't divulge the name) and have had close Muslim friends. It totally depends on their upbringing. One friend doesn't live to eat non-veg, and another Muslim used to make fun of him. Another one was just like you; he used to go to a room upstairs five times a day for Namaz. The beauty of this is his supervisor, who was a Muslim himself, had fired this guy because every time he met this supervisor, he greeted in Urdu, "Salam wallekum." In a day, you meet your supervisors numerous times, and every time he greeted in Urdu and while leaving also he greeted. That supervisor, despite being a Muslim, clearly explained to the subordinate that religion and work are different. Once you wished me good morning in Urdu in the morning, that's enough; here we come to work.
Because of this one person leaving the workplace during office time 4-5 times a day, other staff (Hindu + Muslim staff together) felt that why he is doing that. As per the rules, you are only allowed a lunch break for half an hour, and this person took 15 minutes off for 4-5 times a day, whereas other Muslims of his age (22-25 years old) did not go with him for Namaz. He also did not join us at lunchtime, where we used to have lunch together, and only he used to go upstairs to do Namaz and eat alone. From your post, I can only remember that person's name in my thoughts.
Also coming to other points, let me tell you, even Hinduism prohibits all these things, but I wholly agree that many times I have done all of the below-mentioned points at some point in work/life. Many, many, many times, no record of that, but what to do, you just don't have a choice. Also, I don't regret doing these things because all done on behalf of others, i.e., pressure given by others. These things happen in life, and I don't care about them as long as the bad things do not originate in my mind and are done due to pressure given by others. Why do we do these to earn money and keep our job stable? So, if we have our own business, then we need not do these things at all.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
So, friend, it is your life, but the truth is you cannot just do these things in the office. Tomorrow, if it is objected, you may feel hurt. The best thing you can do is, instead of being employed, you can be an employer. Start your own business, be your boss, work at your own timings, and follow your own policies.
__________________
So, friend, it is your life, but the truth is you cannot just do these things in the office. Tomorrow, if it is objected, you may feel hurt. The best thing you can do is, instead of being employed, you can be an employer. Start your own business, be your boss, work at your own timings.
From India, Madras
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Your mention in the first post of "even if he is busy with the CEO in a meeting" is entirely baseless. When you agree to doctors' emergencies, then you should also accept that for your company, during important meetings, interviews, or discussions that occur during the day and if they fall during Namaz time or Friday, they are more important than prayer and require your time.
Until you realize this and change your mindset, it won't do you any good. Because in all these situations, you are the only one who will suffer. I lived all my childhood in a Mughal-dominated city (won't divulge the name) and have had close Muslim friends. It totally depends on their upbringing. One friend doesn't live to eat non-veg, and another Muslim used to make fun of him. Another one was just like you; he used to go to a room upstairs five times a day for Namaz. The beauty of this is his supervisor, who was a Muslim himself, had fired this guy because every time he met this supervisor, he greeted in Urdu, "Salam wallekum." In a day, you meet your supervisors numerous times, and every time he greeted in Urdu and while leaving also he greeted. That supervisor, despite being a Muslim, clearly explained to the subordinate that religion and work are different. Once you wished me good morning in Urdu in the morning, that's enough; here we come to work.
Because of this one person leaving the workplace during office time 4-5 times a day, other staff (Hindu + Muslim staff together) felt that why he is doing that. As per the rules, you are only allowed a lunch break for half an hour, and this person took 15 minutes off for 4-5 times a day, whereas other Muslims of his age (22-25 years old) did not go with him for Namaz. He also did not join us at lunchtime, where we used to have lunch together, and only he used to go upstairs to do Namaz and eat alone. From your post, I can only remember that person's name in my thoughts.
Also coming to other points, let me tell you, even Hinduism prohibits all these things, but I wholly agree that many times I have done all of the below-mentioned points at some point in work/life. Many, many, many times, no record of that, but what to do, you just don't have a choice. Also, I don't regret doing these things because all done on behalf of others, i.e., pressure given by others. These things happen in life, and I don't care about them as long as the bad things do not originate in my mind and are done due to pressure given by others. Why do we do these to earn money and keep our job stable? So, if we have our own business, then we need not do these things at all.
5. A Muslim can never lie or cheat with anyone (i.e., A Muslim can't lie or cheat with other employees on behalf of his boss).
6. A Muslim can't forge HR annual statements or do any manipulation in HR audit - on behalf of his boss.
7. A Muslim can't show favoritism or nepotism on behalf of his boss.
8. A Muslim must ensure equity and justice at all times and with all people.
9. A Muslim can't pay or accept bribes.
So, friend, it is your life, but the truth is you cannot just do these things in the office. Tomorrow, if it is objected, you may feel hurt. The best thing you can do is, instead of being employed, you can be an employer. Start your own business, be your boss, work at your own timings, and follow your own policies.
__________________
So, friend, it is your life, but the truth is you cannot just do these things in the office. Tomorrow, if it is objected, you may feel hurt. The best thing you can do is, instead of being employed, you can be an employer. Start your own business, be your boss, work at your own timings.
From India, Madras
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Indian organizations are secular and do not and should not make any concessions for any practitioner of any religion.
Religious practice is a personal matter - no one should interfere in your religious practice, and you should not expect any additional concessions.
From India, Delhi
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Religious practice is a personal matter - no one should interfere in your religious practice, and you should not expect any additional concessions.
From India, Delhi
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Dear all,
First of all, the question is "Can a 'practicing' Muslim work as an HR professional in an Indian corporation?"
In this regard, Mr. Naziyasm is right. Work has no religion (Muslim, Hindu, or others); it has only loyal employees. In the above discussions, those who explained points from the Quran or any other religious texts, please refrain from raising such points in open forums because work is worship for every human being, irrespective of religion. Muslims will follow their religion, and praying namaz five times is farz, but Allah said to see both dian and dunya.
I hope you understand. For those who have any points against my thread, please clean the dust because dust is ego, and without cleaning, you can't see people with an open heart.
Regards,
Alam
From India, Hyderabad
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First of all, the question is "Can a 'practicing' Muslim work as an HR professional in an Indian corporation?"
In this regard, Mr. Naziyasm is right. Work has no religion (Muslim, Hindu, or others); it has only loyal employees. In the above discussions, those who explained points from the Quran or any other religious texts, please refrain from raising such points in open forums because work is worship for every human being, irrespective of religion. Muslims will follow their religion, and praying namaz five times is farz, but Allah said to see both dian and dunya.
I hope you understand. For those who have any points against my thread, please clean the dust because dust is ego, and without cleaning, you can't see people with an open heart.
Regards,
Alam
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
I feel that above all things said and done, at the end of the day when we look into the mirror, we need to be able to gaze into our own eyes and say that we have lived the day worthily. We should thank God/Allah/Ishwar for blessing us with a day to live, experience, and cherish the beauty of nature, relationships, emotions, etc. Live in the present instead of the future. "Kal kisne dekha hai!!!"
From India, Pune
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I feel that above all things said and done, at the end of the day when we look into the mirror, we need to be able to gaze into our own eyes and say that we have lived the day worthily. We should thank God/Allah/Ishwar for blessing us with a day to live, experience, and cherish the beauty of nature, relationships, emotions, etc. Live in the present instead of the future. "Kal kisne dekha hai!!!"
From India, Pune
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Just to add... only if we could pray for a few seconds/minutes to our God every day to make this world a safe and peaceful place, our united prayers will generate positive energy around us and repel the negative energies.
Please forgive me if I have hurt anyone :)
From India, Pune
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Please forgive me if I have hurt anyone :)
From India, Pune
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Discussions on such topics and comments, whether positive or negative, in favor or not, can really hurt sentiments. It should be kept as a personalized discussion with HR or any corporate affairs expert.
Thanks and regards,
Gourisankar.S
Principal
SVC
From India, Pune
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Thanks and regards,
Gourisankar.S
Principal
SVC
From India, Pune
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Thank your friend for putting your time and effort to reply to this post. And thanks for giving me an opportunity to clear out certain misconceptions about my faith.
First and foremost, with all due respect, your faith may be ‘totally baseless’ to you but to me, my faith has more worth than my own life. Actually, I find your comparison between a medical emergency and a meeting with a CEO as ‘totally baseless’. You are comparing things with a difference of Chalk and Cheese. Meeting with a CEO is generally for business reasons, whereas a medical emergency requires saving the life of a human being. My faith tells me that saving the life of a human being (irrespective of his religion) is as if saving the life of entire humanity. (…And whoever saves one human life - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely… Qura’n 5.32). Hypothetically, and God forbid, if I would have been a doctor and you come to me as a patient with medical emergency, my faith ‘obligates’ me to leave all prayers (be it Friday or otherwise) and attend to you and treat you in the best possible manner.
I would say exactly the same to you. I believe you have a HR background and if you do, then you must have studied perception and perceptual biases. What you are doing here, is termed as ‘projection error’ where you might be having an understanding of your own faith and you think, all other faiths and ideologies should work in the same manner and if they don’t, there exists some problem in them. Sorry, I use to think like you 6 years ago before I accepted Islam. But when I accepted Islam, contrary to popular perception, Islam led me to more tolerance and more understanding. Between, nowhere since the time this post was originally posted, I ever said that I am suffering. Brother, I am not at all suffering, instead I am extremely happy since the last 6 years and as of now I am already employed in a Central university in Delhi.
Now you are affected by a perceptional error called ‘stereotyping’. I have already clarified this in a post before. To know and understand Islam, you can’t take heed from the actions of contemporary Muslims but only the actions, statements and approvals of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Anyway, nowhere in Islam, it is mandatory to eat non-veg. A vegetarian Muslim can be equally good (in sight of Islam) when compared to a Muslim who eats meat. Secondly, Salam Aleikum is NOT an urdu greeting. It’s a Arabic term which harmlessly means ‘Peace be upon you’ and it’s mentioned in Quran (13.24) and it’s the official Islamic greeting. Yet, it’s not obligatory, not even to Muslims. Had I been in place of your friend, I wouldn’t have resorted to saying Salam Aleikum even to my Muslim supervisor, until I sensed the culture of that place.
I believe you are exaggerating the number 4-5 because technically speaking he can only take a break of 4 times a day if he’s offering all his 5 daily prayers in the office itself and that’s only possible when the office timings are between 4.30 AM – midnight. Otherwise, it can be never be more than 2 breaks (and not even a single break, if the office gets over at 5 PM) the other people who were not offering Namaz were wrong; they were obligated to offer namaz. They were bad examples. Yet, if he violated certain rules by taking extra breaks, the administration was justified in sacking him.
From your post, I don’t want to remember anyone’s name because then I would also be stereotyping. I want to remember the majority of Hindus, whom I met during my last 5-6 years, who were not unbigoted, but also use to understand my faith. As a matter of fact, the last 2 years of my education were in a Muslim dominated institute and the classmate whom I use to talk most and still do, was a Hindu. Yesterday only he was there at my place and we had a long conversation over a cup of hot coffee and nice chicken kebabs
Again, you are trying to impose your understanding and your practice of your faith to Islam and its practice. First and foremost, to say these things are prohibited in Hinduism is a debatable assertion. There are virtually hundreds of books in Hinduism (4 Vedas, more than 200 Upnishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Harivamsa, Agama, Manu Smirti and other law givers, Geeta, 18 Mahapuranas, 19 Upapuranas amogst others) and thousands of sages and saints (each coming up with his own understanding to reach God) and millions of Gods and Goddesses. I don’t see say any central authority, not even unity among Hindus to define a standard and universal code of law (defining do’s and don’ts for hindus) for Hindus to follow (irrespective of their caste, creed, color, race, language or nationality). Even the word Hindu and Hinduism is a misnomer. Unlike Islam and Muslim, the word Hindu and Hinduism is nowhere mentioned in any of the scriptures of Hinduism. Even the word ‘Hindu’ has more of geographical connotation than a religious one. Geographically, I have no problem calling myself as a Hindu because I live in India, Hindustan. There’s even a whole debate between the Aryans and Dravidians as to claim the original ancestry of India. In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling: When we think of the Hindu religion, unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one god; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more. My point of mentioning all this is that culturally you are programmed in such a way because it’s easier for you to mould yourself and adjust to the environment to satisfy your desires.
For Muslims, we believe that every single action of ours gets recorded and we would be duly recompensed for all what we did in this life. Nothing escapes God’s knowledge, no matter how insignificant or fleeting it might seem. God says: “Surely if there be but the weight of the grain of a mustard-seed, even though it is in (the heart of) rock, or (high above) in the heaven or (deep down) in the earth, God will bring it to light; surely God is the Knower of Subtleties, All-Aware” [Sūrah Luqmān: 16]. And God says: “In whatever business you may be, and whatever portion you may be reciting from the Qur'an, and whatever deed you may be doing, We are witness to what you are engaged in. Not the weight of an atom on Earth or in heaven is hidden from your Lord, nor anything lesser or greater but it is recorded in a clear Book.” [Sūrah Yūnus: 61] Hence, as a devout Muslim, I have to make sure all my actions (manifest or concealed) have to be in accordance to the tenets of Islam. Likewise, when we engage in our worldly affairs, like our jobs or our commerce, we will be conscious that there is much more at stake than the supervision of the human authorities appointed over us. We will know that God is watching us and taking account of our deeds, and nothing escapes His notice. We will engage in our work with honesty and integrity. This is why Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “Allah loves it when any of you engages in some work, that he does it well.”
Again, this could be based on your belief that you are the only cause of your sustenance. In Islam, we believe that our sustenance comes from God alone, yet we have to pour in our best efforts to acquire it in a just and righteous manner. One of the names of God in Quran is ‘Ar-Razzaq’ (The Provider). Quran says “And there is no creature on earth but that upon God is its provision [rizq], and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register.” (Qur’an, 11:6). Hence, God says in the Quran: “And if any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God will surely accomplish his purpose. Verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion” (Surah Al-Talaq, verses 3) Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “If only you relied on God a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs.And also He says in the Quran: “And for those who have God consciousness, He (ever) prepares a way out. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine” (Surah Al-Talaq, Verses 2-3) Hence, following the tenets of God is more important for a Muslim because a Muslim has a faith which tells him sustenance comes from God, he only has to acquire it through righteous means.
Thanks for your suggestion, I have already switched my career to academics and the by the grace and mercy of God, I have already got a job in a central university and now I am opting for PhD. I have also let my options for a PSU job because after staying for 4 months (as a HR trainee) at NTPC’s Corp office in New Delhi, I would say the culture of a PSU is still much tolerant of my actions.
Yet, indeed my future plan is to go for entrepreneurship (in education sector) but as of now I would like to collect experience and resources.
(P.S.: My intention is not to offend anyone with this post of mine. I felt I was misunderstood and hence I just wanted to clarify)
From India, Mumbai
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First and foremost, with all due respect, your faith may be ‘totally baseless’ to you but to me, my faith has more worth than my own life. Actually, I find your comparison between a medical emergency and a meeting with a CEO as ‘totally baseless’. You are comparing things with a difference of Chalk and Cheese. Meeting with a CEO is generally for business reasons, whereas a medical emergency requires saving the life of a human being. My faith tells me that saving the life of a human being (irrespective of his religion) is as if saving the life of entire humanity. (…And whoever saves one human life - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely… Qura’n 5.32). Hypothetically, and God forbid, if I would have been a doctor and you come to me as a patient with medical emergency, my faith ‘obligates’ me to leave all prayers (be it Friday or otherwise) and attend to you and treat you in the best possible manner.
I would say exactly the same to you. I believe you have a HR background and if you do, then you must have studied perception and perceptual biases. What you are doing here, is termed as ‘projection error’ where you might be having an understanding of your own faith and you think, all other faiths and ideologies should work in the same manner and if they don’t, there exists some problem in them. Sorry, I use to think like you 6 years ago before I accepted Islam. But when I accepted Islam, contrary to popular perception, Islam led me to more tolerance and more understanding. Between, nowhere since the time this post was originally posted, I ever said that I am suffering. Brother, I am not at all suffering, instead I am extremely happy since the last 6 years and as of now I am already employed in a Central university in Delhi.
Now you are affected by a perceptional error called ‘stereotyping’. I have already clarified this in a post before. To know and understand Islam, you can’t take heed from the actions of contemporary Muslims but only the actions, statements and approvals of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Anyway, nowhere in Islam, it is mandatory to eat non-veg. A vegetarian Muslim can be equally good (in sight of Islam) when compared to a Muslim who eats meat. Secondly, Salam Aleikum is NOT an urdu greeting. It’s a Arabic term which harmlessly means ‘Peace be upon you’ and it’s mentioned in Quran (13.24) and it’s the official Islamic greeting. Yet, it’s not obligatory, not even to Muslims. Had I been in place of your friend, I wouldn’t have resorted to saying Salam Aleikum even to my Muslim supervisor, until I sensed the culture of that place.
I believe you are exaggerating the number 4-5 because technically speaking he can only take a break of 4 times a day if he’s offering all his 5 daily prayers in the office itself and that’s only possible when the office timings are between 4.30 AM – midnight. Otherwise, it can be never be more than 2 breaks (and not even a single break, if the office gets over at 5 PM) the other people who were not offering Namaz were wrong; they were obligated to offer namaz. They were bad examples. Yet, if he violated certain rules by taking extra breaks, the administration was justified in sacking him.
From your post, I don’t want to remember anyone’s name because then I would also be stereotyping. I want to remember the majority of Hindus, whom I met during my last 5-6 years, who were not unbigoted, but also use to understand my faith. As a matter of fact, the last 2 years of my education were in a Muslim dominated institute and the classmate whom I use to talk most and still do, was a Hindu. Yesterday only he was there at my place and we had a long conversation over a cup of hot coffee and nice chicken kebabs
Again, you are trying to impose your understanding and your practice of your faith to Islam and its practice. First and foremost, to say these things are prohibited in Hinduism is a debatable assertion. There are virtually hundreds of books in Hinduism (4 Vedas, more than 200 Upnishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Harivamsa, Agama, Manu Smirti and other law givers, Geeta, 18 Mahapuranas, 19 Upapuranas amogst others) and thousands of sages and saints (each coming up with his own understanding to reach God) and millions of Gods and Goddesses. I don’t see say any central authority, not even unity among Hindus to define a standard and universal code of law (defining do’s and don’ts for hindus) for Hindus to follow (irrespective of their caste, creed, color, race, language or nationality). Even the word Hindu and Hinduism is a misnomer. Unlike Islam and Muslim, the word Hindu and Hinduism is nowhere mentioned in any of the scriptures of Hinduism. Even the word ‘Hindu’ has more of geographical connotation than a religious one. Geographically, I have no problem calling myself as a Hindu because I live in India, Hindustan. There’s even a whole debate between the Aryans and Dravidians as to claim the original ancestry of India. In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling: When we think of the Hindu religion, unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one god; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more. My point of mentioning all this is that culturally you are programmed in such a way because it’s easier for you to mould yourself and adjust to the environment to satisfy your desires.
For Muslims, we believe that every single action of ours gets recorded and we would be duly recompensed for all what we did in this life. Nothing escapes God’s knowledge, no matter how insignificant or fleeting it might seem. God says: “Surely if there be but the weight of the grain of a mustard-seed, even though it is in (the heart of) rock, or (high above) in the heaven or (deep down) in the earth, God will bring it to light; surely God is the Knower of Subtleties, All-Aware” [Sūrah Luqmān: 16]. And God says: “In whatever business you may be, and whatever portion you may be reciting from the Qur'an, and whatever deed you may be doing, We are witness to what you are engaged in. Not the weight of an atom on Earth or in heaven is hidden from your Lord, nor anything lesser or greater but it is recorded in a clear Book.” [Sūrah Yūnus: 61] Hence, as a devout Muslim, I have to make sure all my actions (manifest or concealed) have to be in accordance to the tenets of Islam. Likewise, when we engage in our worldly affairs, like our jobs or our commerce, we will be conscious that there is much more at stake than the supervision of the human authorities appointed over us. We will know that God is watching us and taking account of our deeds, and nothing escapes His notice. We will engage in our work with honesty and integrity. This is why Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “Allah loves it when any of you engages in some work, that he does it well.”
Again, this could be based on your belief that you are the only cause of your sustenance. In Islam, we believe that our sustenance comes from God alone, yet we have to pour in our best efforts to acquire it in a just and righteous manner. One of the names of God in Quran is ‘Ar-Razzaq’ (The Provider). Quran says “And there is no creature on earth but that upon God is its provision [rizq], and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register.” (Qur’an, 11:6). Hence, God says in the Quran: “And if any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God will surely accomplish his purpose. Verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion” (Surah Al-Talaq, verses 3) Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “If only you relied on God a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs.And also He says in the Quran: “And for those who have God consciousness, He (ever) prepares a way out. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine” (Surah Al-Talaq, Verses 2-3) Hence, following the tenets of God is more important for a Muslim because a Muslim has a faith which tells him sustenance comes from God, he only has to acquire it through righteous means.
Thanks for your suggestion, I have already switched my career to academics and the by the grace and mercy of God, I have already got a job in a central university and now I am opting for PhD. I have also let my options for a PSU job because after staying for 4 months (as a HR trainee) at NTPC’s Corp office in New Delhi, I would say the culture of a PSU is still much tolerant of my actions.
Yet, indeed my future plan is to go for entrepreneurship (in education sector) but as of now I would like to collect experience and resources.
(P.S.: My intention is not to offend anyone with this post of mine. I felt I was misunderstood and hence I just wanted to clarify)
From India, Mumbai
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This was my original thought when I created the original post. I was not sad, depressed, or anything, and neither did I have any problem with it. I only wanted to reinforce my decision to switch from corporate to academics, and I wanted to gather diverse views on it. What you said is true, and it would be unjustified on the part of a person who asks for any additional concessions based on his religious beliefs.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Mr. Alam,
With your name, I believe you are a Muslim. With all due respect, please don’t speak about Islam when you don’t know about it (As per an authentic narration of Prophet, it’s a heinous sin to quote falsehood in his name). I am also a student of Islamic studies and I am speaking on behalf of Quran and authentic narrations of Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him), I am not speaking to please anyone or to please myself.
You may be an expert on Hinduism or other faiths, but at least your knowledge on Islam is extremely limited. Who said work has got no religion? In Islam, working ‘Halal’ (permissible) is very much part of Islam. I have already quoted the verses in the previous post. By your standards, there shouldn’t be any problem for a Muslim to work in a brewery, a casino, in an interest based bank, in a pub, in a meat shop selling pork, or even as a sex worker (in the countries where it’s legal to do so). Isn’t it? Since you may not be aware, there’s an entire Surah in Quran dedicated against those people who deal in fraud and cheating. It’s Surah Al-Mutaffifin, no. 83, even Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “The one who cheats (or deceives) us is not one of us.” Narrated by Muslim (101). Muslim (102) also narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Whoever cheats (or deceives) does not belong to me.” There are many other such verses and authentic narrations of Prophet speaking on the same topic and it’s beyond the scope of this post to put them here. Hence, an employee must be sincere in his work and do it in the manner required, without cheating or deceiving anyone, and without delaying work for people. He should realize that he will stand before God and that God has only given him this job so that he can be sincere towards the Muslims.
Why I shouldn’t raise such points in an open forum? This forum is for people from the field of HR. I wanted to know the tolerance level or acceptance of such practices in Indian context and hence I created this post. I am not aware if I have done something wrong as per the rules of citehr.
Yes, work is worship even in Islam and hence that work has to be done in the manner required by Islam, otherwise it would become disobedience.
It’s good that you know its fardh (obligatory) for a Muslim to offer 5 times daily prayers. Please at least spell Allah correctly, its Allah, not allha and it’s Deen, not dian. And what do you mean by this statement of yours and where did you got it? Can you please quote a verse of Quran or an authentic narration of Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) to back your statement? Does it imply that if my boss asks to me to drink alcohol with a prospective client, should I do it? Or to sell my product claiming false qualities? Or to charge my customer wrongly ? Or if I am a doctor, prescribe unnecessary tests to my patient, just because the diagnosis centre has bribed me ? Or if I am student, try to cheat in the exam so as to get good marks ? Sorry, if this is what you meant from your statement, then to you is your Deen and to me is mine.
I hope the same for you. May God give you guidance and may he makes your understand that a Muslim can never ever deliberately misquote or falsely quote Islam. I am also not speaking on behalf of my ego, I am speaking on the basis of scripture.
From India, Mumbai
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With your name, I believe you are a Muslim. With all due respect, please don’t speak about Islam when you don’t know about it (As per an authentic narration of Prophet, it’s a heinous sin to quote falsehood in his name). I am also a student of Islamic studies and I am speaking on behalf of Quran and authentic narrations of Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him), I am not speaking to please anyone or to please myself.
You may be an expert on Hinduism or other faiths, but at least your knowledge on Islam is extremely limited. Who said work has got no religion? In Islam, working ‘Halal’ (permissible) is very much part of Islam. I have already quoted the verses in the previous post. By your standards, there shouldn’t be any problem for a Muslim to work in a brewery, a casino, in an interest based bank, in a pub, in a meat shop selling pork, or even as a sex worker (in the countries where it’s legal to do so). Isn’t it? Since you may not be aware, there’s an entire Surah in Quran dedicated against those people who deal in fraud and cheating. It’s Surah Al-Mutaffifin, no. 83, even Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “The one who cheats (or deceives) us is not one of us.” Narrated by Muslim (101). Muslim (102) also narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Whoever cheats (or deceives) does not belong to me.” There are many other such verses and authentic narrations of Prophet speaking on the same topic and it’s beyond the scope of this post to put them here. Hence, an employee must be sincere in his work and do it in the manner required, without cheating or deceiving anyone, and without delaying work for people. He should realize that he will stand before God and that God has only given him this job so that he can be sincere towards the Muslims.
Why I shouldn’t raise such points in an open forum? This forum is for people from the field of HR. I wanted to know the tolerance level or acceptance of such practices in Indian context and hence I created this post. I am not aware if I have done something wrong as per the rules of citehr.
Yes, work is worship even in Islam and hence that work has to be done in the manner required by Islam, otherwise it would become disobedience.
It’s good that you know its fardh (obligatory) for a Muslim to offer 5 times daily prayers. Please at least spell Allah correctly, its Allah, not allha and it’s Deen, not dian. And what do you mean by this statement of yours and where did you got it? Can you please quote a verse of Quran or an authentic narration of Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) to back your statement? Does it imply that if my boss asks to me to drink alcohol with a prospective client, should I do it? Or to sell my product claiming false qualities? Or to charge my customer wrongly ? Or if I am a doctor, prescribe unnecessary tests to my patient, just because the diagnosis centre has bribed me ? Or if I am student, try to cheat in the exam so as to get good marks ? Sorry, if this is what you meant from your statement, then to you is your Deen and to me is mine.
I hope the same for you. May God give you guidance and may he makes your understand that a Muslim can never ever deliberately misquote or falsely quote Islam. I am also not speaking on behalf of my ego, I am speaking on the basis of scripture.
From India, Mumbai
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Please may my request all bloggers to kindly stick to the query raised and not get into any debate on the rights and wrongs of any postings. Thanking you in advance.
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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All I have to say is that if this is the way you reply to the members who have given you answers, then you should not have posted your post at all. So many members have given their views, and by quoting verses from the Quran, you have proved everyone's advice as wrong. What is the ultimate goal of you asking a query and not accepting even a single reply from any member? It would have been better if you had directly asked your priest; it would have saved a lot of time for the members. We have presented the reality to you, the reality that is happening and will happen. Whether to accept it or not is up to you. It is only a probability that out of a percentage you got into a PSU that allows you to practice your religion in the workplace. If this were not the case, you would not be so confident in replying. Anyways, I really don't understand the motive behind your posting such questions and then again quoting the replies of the members and proving that everyone is wrong and it is their perception. Since you are quoting scriptures, it would have been better if you had stated that only Muslims could reply so that they can understand what is right and what is wrong. Because I am really not understanding your replies, and everyone I quoted thinks the same way, maybe not you.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Could not find the edit option if the thread starters query is finished this thread can be closed i feel,
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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The Thread Starter’s query has been answered. Hence, it is better not to post any more messages. I hope the bloggers appreciate this request.
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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This is what I asked in the original post: "I only want to ask what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above." I didn't ask that I should change my beliefs to make myself compatible for the corporate culture. And please speak for yourself, I am not defying every single post, and not everyone thinks the same way. Please read from the beginning.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Yes my query has been answered. I may not need any more replies. This is one of the apt responses I got and the one which I appreciated.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hey Peace Promoter,
I might be a little late in making my point here, but I still wanted to express my perspective as an HR professional, which may help you analyze the situation from a different angle. I have gone through the entire discussion and would like to admit that understanding the interviewer's point of view is crucial. As an HR myself, I would like to explain how your actions could be perceived. In most companies, they are primarily looking for a competent candidate who can contribute to profitability, regardless of religious beliefs. Hopefully, considering this perspective might be beneficial for you.
Case 1: Refusing to shake hands may come across as rude, potentially leading to the impression of being obstinate, which could raise concerns about fitting into the office environment. This scenario could result in not being selected, especially if you do not provide a justification or an opportunity to explain your actions.
Case 2: If a female interviewer offers to shake hands, acknowledging it with a greeting like Namaste or Aadab and briefly explaining the reason could be more acceptable. It might be uncommon, as mentioned earlier, for Muslims to engage in handshakes, especially in India, which could make the interviewer cautious. Simply declining the handshake from a female interviewer could be misunderstood as chauvinism rather than a religious practice. Therefore, it is crucial to articulate your stance effectively, considering that you are also representing your religion. If the interviewer is understanding and unbiased, they will evaluate you based on your overall performance during the interview.
Additionally, it is essential to be clear about your religious practices, such as prayer times and Friday observances, in advance.
Companies are generally not hesitant to hire individuals who are devout followers of their religion. However, they may be concerned about setting precedents that could lead to requests for special accommodations from others. It is important to assure that you can adjust if necessary or if the situation demands it. As an HR professional, maintaining fairness among employees, regardless of seniority or experience, is a key consideration.
I hope you can see your situation from this perspective and determine your next steps based on the suggestions provided by various individuals. Taking into account these viewpoints may help you navigate this issue effectively.
I wish you all the best in finding a job where you can practice your religious beliefs freely.
Best Wishes,
Axita
From India, Chandigarh
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I might be a little late in making my point here, but I still wanted to express my perspective as an HR professional, which may help you analyze the situation from a different angle. I have gone through the entire discussion and would like to admit that understanding the interviewer's point of view is crucial. As an HR myself, I would like to explain how your actions could be perceived. In most companies, they are primarily looking for a competent candidate who can contribute to profitability, regardless of religious beliefs. Hopefully, considering this perspective might be beneficial for you.
Case 1: Refusing to shake hands may come across as rude, potentially leading to the impression of being obstinate, which could raise concerns about fitting into the office environment. This scenario could result in not being selected, especially if you do not provide a justification or an opportunity to explain your actions.
Case 2: If a female interviewer offers to shake hands, acknowledging it with a greeting like Namaste or Aadab and briefly explaining the reason could be more acceptable. It might be uncommon, as mentioned earlier, for Muslims to engage in handshakes, especially in India, which could make the interviewer cautious. Simply declining the handshake from a female interviewer could be misunderstood as chauvinism rather than a religious practice. Therefore, it is crucial to articulate your stance effectively, considering that you are also representing your religion. If the interviewer is understanding and unbiased, they will evaluate you based on your overall performance during the interview.
Additionally, it is essential to be clear about your religious practices, such as prayer times and Friday observances, in advance.
Companies are generally not hesitant to hire individuals who are devout followers of their religion. However, they may be concerned about setting precedents that could lead to requests for special accommodations from others. It is important to assure that you can adjust if necessary or if the situation demands it. As an HR professional, maintaining fairness among employees, regardless of seniority or experience, is a key consideration.
I hope you can see your situation from this perspective and determine your next steps based on the suggestions provided by various individuals. Taking into account these viewpoints may help you navigate this issue effectively.
I wish you all the best in finding a job where you can practice your religious beliefs freely.
Best Wishes,
Axita
From India, Chandigarh
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Dear Axita,
Thank you for taking the time to positively contribute to this post. I appreciate your input and completely understand your viewpoint, which aligns with my beliefs regarding HR's perspective. Case 1 accurately reflects the situation in which I was rejected because the HR manager indirectly indicated that I would disrupt the organization's culture. Case 2 also holds true as it may be perceived as chauvinism, but Islamically, there is a completely different rationale behind it.
It is also true that since the majority of Indian Muslims working in corporates do not adhere to these commandments, it was inevitable for me to be treated differently.
I have no issue with being rejected as I brought it upon myself, fully aware of the consequences of my actions. I harbor no regrets or grudges. However, the only aspect that saddens me is when the other party becomes so agitated over my actions that they do not even give me a patient hearing to explain my standpoint.
I am grateful that I am now working in an organization where I have the freedom to practice my religion.
Warm Regards,
Peace Promoter
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you for taking the time to positively contribute to this post. I appreciate your input and completely understand your viewpoint, which aligns with my beliefs regarding HR's perspective. Case 1 accurately reflects the situation in which I was rejected because the HR manager indirectly indicated that I would disrupt the organization's culture. Case 2 also holds true as it may be perceived as chauvinism, but Islamically, there is a completely different rationale behind it.
It is also true that since the majority of Indian Muslims working in corporates do not adhere to these commandments, it was inevitable for me to be treated differently.
I have no issue with being rejected as I brought it upon myself, fully aware of the consequences of my actions. I harbor no regrets or grudges. However, the only aspect that saddens me is when the other party becomes so agitated over my actions that they do not even give me a patient hearing to explain my standpoint.
I am grateful that I am now working in an organization where I have the freedom to practice my religion.
Warm Regards,
Peace Promoter
From India, Mumbai
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Dear friends,
The religious faith is different from the earning of bread. It is not linked with organizational practices. In a manufacturing unit, full 365 days are a must to work. There is no leisure or specified time for other activities, not even for natural calls. The time is uniformly fixed for all employees irrespective of gender, religion, or proximity to the office.
In my view and experience, only labor laws or organizational rules should be followed by all respective employees uniformly. Privileges and practices of the organization depend on the nature of the work.
There should be a point to make such things a matter.
Keeping in view the safety and security, industrial laws were prepared and implemented in the country but not for gender, religion, or other political purposes.
In my career, I thought that I have solved some issues with using common sense. In my view, common sense means that which helps in judgment at large.
I am happy that I have got a nice platform to exchange views and emotions in a peaceful manner.
On this happy day for all the citehr family of the new year 2013, I wish all to have a bright future with health and wealth.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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The religious faith is different from the earning of bread. It is not linked with organizational practices. In a manufacturing unit, full 365 days are a must to work. There is no leisure or specified time for other activities, not even for natural calls. The time is uniformly fixed for all employees irrespective of gender, religion, or proximity to the office.
In my view and experience, only labor laws or organizational rules should be followed by all respective employees uniformly. Privileges and practices of the organization depend on the nature of the work.
There should be a point to make such things a matter.
Keeping in view the safety and security, industrial laws were prepared and implemented in the country but not for gender, religion, or other political purposes.
In my career, I thought that I have solved some issues with using common sense. In my view, common sense means that which helps in judgment at large.
I am happy that I have got a nice platform to exchange views and emotions in a peaceful manner.
On this happy day for all the citehr family of the new year 2013, I wish all to have a bright future with health and wealth.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hi,
I believe any person, irrespective of religion, can work for any company, provided it does not impact the business. Flexibility and respect for others are at the core of humanity.
According to Darwin's theory, it is the species that adapt to change that survive. There is a logic behind every quote in religious texts, but that does not necessarily mean they are applicable in today's world.
Therefore, first, decide what you want from your life. If religious quotes from years ago lead you to progress and enhance your life, then follow them. Otherwise, follow the logic that helps you excel in life.
Regards,
Vinod Bidwaik
From India, Pune
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I believe any person, irrespective of religion, can work for any company, provided it does not impact the business. Flexibility and respect for others are at the core of humanity.
According to Darwin's theory, it is the species that adapt to change that survive. There is a logic behind every quote in religious texts, but that does not necessarily mean they are applicable in today's world.
Therefore, first, decide what you want from your life. If religious quotes from years ago lead you to progress and enhance your life, then follow them. Otherwise, follow the logic that helps you excel in life.
Regards,
Vinod Bidwaik
From India, Pune
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3 points
1. Darwin's theory of evolution (with respect to the evolution of homo sapiens) is still a theory and has been critically reviewed time and again by people within the scientific community (Dissent From Darwin Blog).
2. To me, my religious book is as logical as it was at its inception and will remain so until the end of time. This is the uniqueness and beauty of it. However, the applicability of certain texts may be circumstantial, and those circumstances may not be present today, hence they cannot be applied until those circumstances are recreated.
3. Yes, the practical observance of my faith has given value to my life, defined my role in this world, and has actually helped me progress and excel in life. To me, it is absolutely logical and rational, and I will continue to follow them. Yet, I am not imposing my views on anyone. People have their own perspectives, and I have mine.
From India, Mumbai
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1. Darwin's theory of evolution (with respect to the evolution of homo sapiens) is still a theory and has been critically reviewed time and again by people within the scientific community (Dissent From Darwin Blog).
2. To me, my religious book is as logical as it was at its inception and will remain so until the end of time. This is the uniqueness and beauty of it. However, the applicability of certain texts may be circumstantial, and those circumstances may not be present today, hence they cannot be applied until those circumstances are recreated.
3. Yes, the practical observance of my faith has given value to my life, defined my role in this world, and has actually helped me progress and excel in life. To me, it is absolutely logical and rational, and I will continue to follow them. Yet, I am not imposing my views on anyone. People have their own perspectives, and I have mine.
From India, Mumbai
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not only ISLAM...any other religion would also say samething..Let us Keep religion out of work..Instead think and discuss how to work better and make our country a developed nation.
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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Dear Friends Peace Promoter,
I am very new to CiteHR and am surprised that you have been a member since 2010. I am not sure if you are really a Muslim or just posing as one. But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments. The conditions to be a real Muslim, as laid out by you above, are impractical and may be just of an academic nature or may be applicable to those whose job is solely to serve Allah. Your opening paragraph explaining the definition of a Muslim is unwarranted as dear Muslims are only of one type, meaning he who worships Allah and the Quran is a Muslim. There is nothing like a non-practicing or practicing Muslim. There is nothing like a liberated or backward Muslim.
I can tell you that most companies will not allow you to take breaks four times a day for Namaz and lunch. Even if some do allow it, they cannot guarantee the same for every day. There may be meetings with seniors and management where you can't just get up and tell your boss or MD that it's prayer time and you are going for prayers, so they should wait for 30 minutes and you will resume the meeting.
You say in India it's very difficult to find a neat and clean place, which means either you are not from India or you have always stayed at home until now. The biggest Muslim countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and many others are the same in terms of cleanliness.
In summary, the questions raised by you about being a real Muslim or not are very theoretical and lack real substance. I feel you are quite intelligent and know what you are doing and writing. I can assure you that you may not be able to work in HR, Sales, Dispatch, or any other department in the private sector. In the public sector, nobody will allow you to have three breaks plus one for prayer each day. You are not fit to be a businessperson in India at least, as businesspeople have to charge profit and pay interest on loans, which may go against your faith. You are not even fit to be a doctor as they too may have to lie to patients and say, "Yes, you will get recovered in a few weeks," although the doctor clearly knows the patient is going to die soon.
After giving serious thought to all the problems one faces in a job, I feel the best option to manage your true faith as per the rules laid by religion is to find work in a Muslim charity organization or at a mosque. Maybe there you can keep your faith intact.
So please take my words lightly and consider whether you wish to work in a company as a regular employee and grow or just join a religious organization and live according to the tenets of Islam.
From India, Delhi
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I am very new to CiteHR and am surprised that you have been a member since 2010. I am not sure if you are really a Muslim or just posing as one. But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments. The conditions to be a real Muslim, as laid out by you above, are impractical and may be just of an academic nature or may be applicable to those whose job is solely to serve Allah. Your opening paragraph explaining the definition of a Muslim is unwarranted as dear Muslims are only of one type, meaning he who worships Allah and the Quran is a Muslim. There is nothing like a non-practicing or practicing Muslim. There is nothing like a liberated or backward Muslim.
I can tell you that most companies will not allow you to take breaks four times a day for Namaz and lunch. Even if some do allow it, they cannot guarantee the same for every day. There may be meetings with seniors and management where you can't just get up and tell your boss or MD that it's prayer time and you are going for prayers, so they should wait for 30 minutes and you will resume the meeting.
You say in India it's very difficult to find a neat and clean place, which means either you are not from India or you have always stayed at home until now. The biggest Muslim countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and many others are the same in terms of cleanliness.
In summary, the questions raised by you about being a real Muslim or not are very theoretical and lack real substance. I feel you are quite intelligent and know what you are doing and writing. I can assure you that you may not be able to work in HR, Sales, Dispatch, or any other department in the private sector. In the public sector, nobody will allow you to have three breaks plus one for prayer each day. You are not fit to be a businessperson in India at least, as businesspeople have to charge profit and pay interest on loans, which may go against your faith. You are not even fit to be a doctor as they too may have to lie to patients and say, "Yes, you will get recovered in a few weeks," although the doctor clearly knows the patient is going to die soon.
After giving serious thought to all the problems one faces in a job, I feel the best option to manage your true faith as per the rules laid by religion is to find work in a Muslim charity organization or at a mosque. Maybe there you can keep your faith intact.
So please take my words lightly and consider whether you wish to work in a company as a regular employee and grow or just join a religious organization and live according to the tenets of Islam.
From India, Delhi
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Thanks for your post. I am a Muslim, and there's no reason for me to pose as one.
Your definition of Muslim is skewed; please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships the Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if you would have known the basics of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote.
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill-mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you.
For your kind information, I am already working as an Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi while abiding by all that I wrote.
Peace!
From India, Mumbai
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Your definition of Muslim is skewed; please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships the Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if you would have known the basics of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote.
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill-mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you.
For your kind information, I am already working as an Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi while abiding by all that I wrote.
Peace!
From India, Mumbai
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Thanks for your post.
I am a Muslim and there's no reason for me to pose as one. Your definition of Muslim is skewed, please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships the Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if you would have known a basic of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote.
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill-mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you. Moreover, I never even raised the issue of finding a clean place.
For your kind information, I am already working as an Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi while abiding all that I wrote.
Peace!
From India, Mumbai
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I am a Muslim and there's no reason for me to pose as one. Your definition of Muslim is skewed, please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships the Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if you would have known a basic of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote.
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill-mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you. Moreover, I never even raised the issue of finding a clean place.
For your kind information, I am already working as an Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi while abiding all that I wrote.
Peace!
From India, Mumbai
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My sincere appeal to bloggers is please answer the query, if you can, and not attack the person or the faith one professes. For example, in answering the query, one can state that even in a university, sometimes, occasions arise when a meeting (say an examination board or a disciplinary proceeding, where external examiners are involved) cannot be postponed or stopped for a person to go and do his prayers. Depending on the importance of the individual's contribution to the proceedings, he or she will be allowed to excuse himself or herself from the proceedings.
From United Kingdom
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From United Kingdom
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Dear Assistant Professor Sahib,
Thank you for your response to my reply. You called it ill-mannered, and that's fine. Even before replying to your request for as many responses as possible, I was aware that my response would hurt you. That's why I began with the words, "But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments." I am truly sorry if my response seemed provocative and led to your rather rude reply. However, I do not feel offended because I believe that what I wrote is the truth. You ask why I felt offended; well, I am not a Muslim, although I did feel bad as I have many Muslim friends who take pride in their faith.
You mention being an Assistant Professor, and I am not aware of the subject, but one of my friends is the Dean of the Law Faculty at one of India's oldest and most reputable Central Universities. He is a top expert in Muslim laws and serves as an advisor to the Saudi King. I know them to be good human beings and good Muslims, regardless of how often they pray.
It is evident that one must adapt to developments and cannot remain tied to old traditions or rules made thousands of years ago. No religion today is the same as it was centuries ago. I am not singling out any specific religion; I believe that any religion or custom that hinders the progress and peace of its followers must evolve. Despite resistance from some religious figures, these norms will eventually change and become more practical over time.
Dear Sir, the best religion, as mentioned by John Milton, is one that acknowledges "Service to mankind is better than service to God." When people of all religions embrace this idea, there will be peace and prosperity worldwide. As a promoter of peace, this is the path to achieve it.
I hope that nothing I have said has offended you, Professor Sahib. I do have a doubt - are you perhaps gathering material to write a book like "Muslims in HR"? Please pardon any typing errors as I am not proficient at typing directly online. My intentions are not to offend you. In my initial response, I suggested pursuing a career in education, which you have accepted. As a Professor, you may not agree with all I have written, but I believe you may find merit in most of it.
Best wishes.
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your response to my reply. You called it ill-mannered, and that's fine. Even before replying to your request for as many responses as possible, I was aware that my response would hurt you. That's why I began with the words, "But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments." I am truly sorry if my response seemed provocative and led to your rather rude reply. However, I do not feel offended because I believe that what I wrote is the truth. You ask why I felt offended; well, I am not a Muslim, although I did feel bad as I have many Muslim friends who take pride in their faith.
You mention being an Assistant Professor, and I am not aware of the subject, but one of my friends is the Dean of the Law Faculty at one of India's oldest and most reputable Central Universities. He is a top expert in Muslim laws and serves as an advisor to the Saudi King. I know them to be good human beings and good Muslims, regardless of how often they pray.
It is evident that one must adapt to developments and cannot remain tied to old traditions or rules made thousands of years ago. No religion today is the same as it was centuries ago. I am not singling out any specific religion; I believe that any religion or custom that hinders the progress and peace of its followers must evolve. Despite resistance from some religious figures, these norms will eventually change and become more practical over time.
Dear Sir, the best religion, as mentioned by John Milton, is one that acknowledges "Service to mankind is better than service to God." When people of all religions embrace this idea, there will be peace and prosperity worldwide. As a promoter of peace, this is the path to achieve it.
I hope that nothing I have said has offended you, Professor Sahib. I do have a doubt - are you perhaps gathering material to write a book like "Muslims in HR"? Please pardon any typing errors as I am not proficient at typing directly online. My intentions are not to offend you. In my initial response, I suggested pursuing a career in education, which you have accepted. As a Professor, you may not agree with all I have written, but I believe you may find merit in most of it.
Best wishes.
From India, Delhi
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