Dear Shikha,
If you have read all my replies, you will note that I am strongly advocating AGAINST taking incompetent consultants on board. Please don't work with them. Please evaluate the consultant before hiring him.
Did you talk to the consultant about his internal processes and various nitty-gritties before hiring him? If no... Why? Whose job is that?
On the other hand, if the consultant is keen to improve and learn, you just need to give him some feedback about your way of working, and if he is competent, he will adopt his process accordingly. That is where empathy, understanding the "Human" in HR comes into play.
I have met HR Managers in big companies who have not been able to ask me the right questions and evaluate me & the consultancy.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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4If you have read all my replies, you will note that I am strongly advocating AGAINST taking incompetent consultants on board. Please don't work with them. Please evaluate the consultant before hiring him.
Did you talk to the consultant about his internal processes and various nitty-gritties before hiring him? If no... Why? Whose job is that?
On the other hand, if the consultant is keen to improve and learn, you just need to give him some feedback about your way of working, and if he is competent, he will adopt his process accordingly. That is where empathy, understanding the "Human" in HR comes into play.
I have met HR Managers in big companies who have not been able to ask me the right questions and evaluate me & the consultancy.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Another thought.
Dhirubhai was doing business for his own good, and he did it his way. I am concerned about the entire consultant fraternity. Their humiliation at the hands of arrogant Corporate HR Managers is saddening and frustrating.
What I am trying to do is raise a voice against those Corporate HR professionals who are insensitive, arrogant, exploitative, and corrupt.
You have raised a voice against female insecurity. Though I am male, I support it wholeheartedly. I appreciate that this is your major concern. I appreciate your guts and endeavor. I understand you and empathize with you.
All I am saying is please extend common courtesy to at least the Good Consultants, please don't exploit them, please don't use them, give where credit is due, help them make an honest living.
We are damn good consultants, clean, efficient, ethical, professional, clients praise us but still exploit us and humiliate us when they feel like it.
This is not done. This needs to change. This WILL change.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Dhirubhai was doing business for his own good, and he did it his way. I am concerned about the entire consultant fraternity. Their humiliation at the hands of arrogant Corporate HR Managers is saddening and frustrating.
What I am trying to do is raise a voice against those Corporate HR professionals who are insensitive, arrogant, exploitative, and corrupt.
You have raised a voice against female insecurity. Though I am male, I support it wholeheartedly. I appreciate that this is your major concern. I appreciate your guts and endeavor. I understand you and empathize with you.
All I am saying is please extend common courtesy to at least the Good Consultants, please don't exploit them, please don't use them, give where credit is due, help them make an honest living.
We are damn good consultants, clean, efficient, ethical, professional, clients praise us but still exploit us and humiliate us when they feel like it.
This is not done. This needs to change. This WILL change.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Good HR Associates,
Pray, GO ON. It's a good start. Please keep the movement going. By the way, I belong to Corporate HR, but I agree with you. I would rather use the term Organizational HR (as opposed to Consultancy HR). Let me assure you that this treatment is not reserved for just your kind. In real life, HR is mostly inhuman. They treat prospective employees, current employees, and past employees the same way. Let's not even start on how they treat outsiders like you.
They are particularly harsh on you people because they think:
- You earn easy money (a month's salary for practically doing nothing, except making a few calls) :-x
- You hire just "fresh graduates" and run a "sweatshop" :-x
- How can they interact at the same level with "low-qualified" people from your agency? :icon7:
- They "pay" you! So aren't they SUPERIOR? :icon7:
- They are the CUSTOMERS. Shouldn't they be treated like KINGS? :(
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Pray, GO ON. It's a good start. Please keep the movement going. By the way, I belong to Corporate HR, but I agree with you. I would rather use the term Organizational HR (as opposed to Consultancy HR). Let me assure you that this treatment is not reserved for just your kind. In real life, HR is mostly inhuman. They treat prospective employees, current employees, and past employees the same way. Let's not even start on how they treat outsiders like you.
They are particularly harsh on you people because they think:
- You earn easy money (a month's salary for practically doing nothing, except making a few calls) :-x
- You hire just "fresh graduates" and run a "sweatshop" :-x
- How can they interact at the same level with "low-qualified" people from your agency? :icon7:
- They "pay" you! So aren't they SUPERIOR? :icon7:
- They are the CUSTOMERS. Shouldn't they be treated like KINGS? :(
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Oops... so many emotions!!
Anyways moving back to what you put as shopkeeper (let's take garments) - there is a difference between an ordinary garment shop salesperson and a designer wear collection gallery. Do you get what I'm trying to say? A designer collection may already have pieces that suit an individual's taste. Otherwise, sometimes the consultant there tries to explain and guide the customer on what exactly suits them, and sometimes they opt for custom-made clothing.
Now, there is no point in you screaming over here. Just as you request to remove consultants who don't work professionally, I ask you to remove clients who don't have proper work ethics.
Look, Sir/Madam! You can't blame someone else if you are not getting the business the way you prefer it to be. YOU need to change the mindset of the corporate people, not just by complaining but by proving through your work.
I don't know if people would laugh here if I say that I DON'T KNOW that HR people take commissions. It's bad if you have known it. Probably you have been doing it.
I love the history of Ambani - not because I learned that you need to stuff money in someone's pocket, but because I learned that "If you love something, love it in a way that you get it the way you want. But in that process, never shout about your weaknesses or complain about anyone. Do it in a style that no one ever knew you went through such difficult phases."
If this is how the consulting business is, you should try to create a niche for yourself. Not fall into the category of all those who complain about their clients. ;-)
It's not just HR processes... in ANY industry, such things happen.
Suppliers, vendors, consultants (in any field) are treated based on the way they interact. We have 200 suppliers giving us competitive proposals, but we choose the one with a good working history and quality work delivery.
I have nothing to do with being angry and surprised over the truth. Should that matter to me? But you seem to be defending yourself and thanking everyone who empathizes with you.
What makes you different from other consultants? Don't tell by yourself, make your clients talk about you to others....
From India, Madras
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Anyways moving back to what you put as shopkeeper (let's take garments) - there is a difference between an ordinary garment shop salesperson and a designer wear collection gallery. Do you get what I'm trying to say? A designer collection may already have pieces that suit an individual's taste. Otherwise, sometimes the consultant there tries to explain and guide the customer on what exactly suits them, and sometimes they opt for custom-made clothing.
Now, there is no point in you screaming over here. Just as you request to remove consultants who don't work professionally, I ask you to remove clients who don't have proper work ethics.
Look, Sir/Madam! You can't blame someone else if you are not getting the business the way you prefer it to be. YOU need to change the mindset of the corporate people, not just by complaining but by proving through your work.
I don't know if people would laugh here if I say that I DON'T KNOW that HR people take commissions. It's bad if you have known it. Probably you have been doing it.
I love the history of Ambani - not because I learned that you need to stuff money in someone's pocket, but because I learned that "If you love something, love it in a way that you get it the way you want. But in that process, never shout about your weaknesses or complain about anyone. Do it in a style that no one ever knew you went through such difficult phases."
If this is how the consulting business is, you should try to create a niche for yourself. Not fall into the category of all those who complain about their clients. ;-)
It's not just HR processes... in ANY industry, such things happen.
Suppliers, vendors, consultants (in any field) are treated based on the way they interact. We have 200 suppliers giving us competitive proposals, but we choose the one with a good working history and quality work delivery.
I have nothing to do with being angry and surprised over the truth. Should that matter to me? But you seem to be defending yourself and thanking everyone who empathizes with you.
What makes you different from other consultants? Don't tell by yourself, make your clients talk about you to others....
From India, Madras
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Dear Asha,
There are some universal truths: rights and wrongs, ethical practices and unethical practices, decency and indecency, corrupt and uncorrupt. Nobody can have an "opinion" on these things. You can only take the side of someone you identify with.
Ya, as you said, don't complain about anything, don't protest about exploitation, don't complain about slavery (we would still have been slaves if we thought the way you do!!)...great.
THEN PLEASE...
...don't complain about Female Insecurity!!
...don't raise your voice!!
I am presuming from your views that you may not have much experience (1 - 2 years?) and that too in 1 -2 companies in the hiring process or a bit more... and you need to see a lot more happening before you can really understand what's going on.
Let's finish the discussion here.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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There are some universal truths: rights and wrongs, ethical practices and unethical practices, decency and indecency, corrupt and uncorrupt. Nobody can have an "opinion" on these things. You can only take the side of someone you identify with.
Ya, as you said, don't complain about anything, don't protest about exploitation, don't complain about slavery (we would still have been slaves if we thought the way you do!!)...great.
THEN PLEASE...
...don't complain about Female Insecurity!!
...don't raise your voice!!
I am presuming from your views that you may not have much experience (1 - 2 years?) and that too in 1 -2 companies in the hiring process or a bit more... and you need to see a lot more happening before you can really understand what's going on.
Let's finish the discussion here.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Good HR Associates,
Hahaha... the conversation is supposed to go on until the corporate HR changes their behavior. (Don't bother to presume... FYI - I have experience with 5 companies, and that's in 5 different countries.)
Dear Asha,
It's better to leave this person and the conversation. May God bless him to understand the in-depth purpose and meaning of the views you shared.
Regards,
AIM
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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Hahaha... the conversation is supposed to go on until the corporate HR changes their behavior. (Don't bother to presume... FYI - I have experience with 5 companies, and that's in 5 different countries.)
Dear Asha,
It's better to leave this person and the conversation. May God bless him to understand the in-depth purpose and meaning of the views you shared.
Regards,
AIM
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
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Yes - don't complain, act like a boss!
Please don't compare female insecurity to the way corporates treat staffing consultants. Lame excuse. 🤷‍♂️
When did I say that one should not protest against slavery? Don't make up stories, especially when you are hyper-emotional. 🤪
I seriously feel that you feel underestimated. You are waiting for someone to give you a chance. Again, I am not blaming you; I am asking you to change the strategy - Instead of saying "Hey, why are you treating consultants like this..." change it to "Hey yes - we are not like other consultants..." 😎
Simple... change the way people look at you, not at the whole consultant list! 🌀
My consultants (in fact, previous coworkers), are so special to me, and we just have the perfect relationship. There exist such consultants too! Always in our good books. ETA, is one of them.
Two other consultants too... well, more than the name of the company, I remember their names - that is the relation we have! They make work really interesting for us too, and "no craps and complaints," very professional and direct.
Hmm about my experience - you are VERY correct. 2 years of experience.
One year as a consultant with a leading ISO certified company (you see - we had always differentiated ourselves from other consultants and had created a niche for ourselves)... I still receive a good nod when I tell people I worked there. So - I am talking to you as a lady who has experience in both - as a consultant and an ordinary corporate recruiter (very simple, very low level).
But all that matters is not years - it's the usage of the head and learning to act accordingly. Yes, many of us fall in between, but we can ask for a helping hand... not blame the mud!
Even now I am saying, think differently. Position yourself differently, no one will put you in the group of consultants who are doing a bad job... good luck!
It is so obvious with your words of comparison to VAFI how "grown" you are with the number of years you have!
God knows if you had the nerve to check what VAFI is about...
From India, Madras
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Please don't compare female insecurity to the way corporates treat staffing consultants. Lame excuse. 🤷‍♂️
When did I say that one should not protest against slavery? Don't make up stories, especially when you are hyper-emotional. 🤪
I seriously feel that you feel underestimated. You are waiting for someone to give you a chance. Again, I am not blaming you; I am asking you to change the strategy - Instead of saying "Hey, why are you treating consultants like this..." change it to "Hey yes - we are not like other consultants..." 😎
Simple... change the way people look at you, not at the whole consultant list! 🌀
My consultants (in fact, previous coworkers), are so special to me, and we just have the perfect relationship. There exist such consultants too! Always in our good books. ETA, is one of them.
Two other consultants too... well, more than the name of the company, I remember their names - that is the relation we have! They make work really interesting for us too, and "no craps and complaints," very professional and direct.
Hmm about my experience - you are VERY correct. 2 years of experience.
One year as a consultant with a leading ISO certified company (you see - we had always differentiated ourselves from other consultants and had created a niche for ourselves)... I still receive a good nod when I tell people I worked there. So - I am talking to you as a lady who has experience in both - as a consultant and an ordinary corporate recruiter (very simple, very low level).
But all that matters is not years - it's the usage of the head and learning to act accordingly. Yes, many of us fall in between, but we can ask for a helping hand... not blame the mud!
Even now I am saying, think differently. Position yourself differently, no one will put you in the group of consultants who are doing a bad job... good luck!
It is so obvious with your words of comparison to VAFI how "grown" you are with the number of years you have!
God knows if you had the nerve to check what VAFI is about...
From India, Madras
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Hi Your communication made it evident that you had experience in Bangladesh, Uganda, Bhutan, Ethiopia & Libiya! For your next posting in Honolulu...Best of Luck!:icon6: Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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From India, Chandigarh
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Dear all,
This is getting very interesting and enlightening (not to mention a bit personal). To be honest, there is a lot of learning involved here. For the first time, the consultant vs. corporate HR relationship is being explored here thoroughly, with no holds barred.
Please continue.
As of today, perhaps this is the most novel, new, and different topic under discussion in this forum. Real learning is taking place.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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This is getting very interesting and enlightening (not to mention a bit personal). To be honest, there is a lot of learning involved here. For the first time, the consultant vs. corporate HR relationship is being explored here thoroughly, with no holds barred.
Please continue.
As of today, perhaps this is the most novel, new, and different topic under discussion in this forum. Real learning is taking place.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mr. Raj,
If you notice one thing that is very obvious - Good HR associates are trying to highlight about the corporate HR people being bad. He/she thanks people who empathize/sympathize with him/her. Finally, the way he/she had responded to Amish Bhatt itself says, "why on earth would any corporate client want to work with such a consultant?" Definitely, this GHA would be out of my list of screening for good consultants!
From India, Madras
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If you notice one thing that is very obvious - Good HR associates are trying to highlight about the corporate HR people being bad. He/she thanks people who empathize/sympathize with him/her. Finally, the way he/she had responded to Amish Bhatt itself says, "why on earth would any corporate client want to work with such a consultant?" Definitely, this GHA would be out of my list of screening for good consultants!
From India, Madras
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