Dear All,
"What will you do as an HR Head if some government official asks you or any of your team members for a bribe to release some document/payment to your company?"
What should be an appropriate answer? Mind you, this question is asked to probe the integrity values of the candidate.
Awaiting responses.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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26"What will you do as an HR Head if some government official asks you or any of your team members for a bribe to release some document/payment to your company?"
What should be an appropriate answer? Mind you, this question is asked to probe the integrity values of the candidate.
Awaiting responses.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Hi,
I would pay to get the document. That's it. No further questions. If you ask why? Well, that's a different story altogether.
One more thing - I would really like to know what you would do in such a situation???
Thanks and regards
From India, New Delhi
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I would pay to get the document. That's it. No further questions. If you ask why? Well, that's a different story altogether.
One more thing - I would really like to know what you would do in such a situation???
Thanks and regards
From India, New Delhi
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Gentlemen,
You should not ask this in public because the answer is not legal. Bribing is illegal, and attempting to get things done by bribing government officials can backfire on you if you are caught with evidence of bribery.
Although this is a cultural practice in many third-world countries in Africa and Asia, corruption in government is a hallmark of these poor nations.
Regards,
Bhajiya
From Saudi Arabia
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You should not ask this in public because the answer is not legal. Bribing is illegal, and attempting to get things done by bribing government officials can backfire on you if you are caught with evidence of bribery.
Although this is a cultural practice in many third-world countries in Africa and Asia, corruption in government is a hallmark of these poor nations.
Regards,
Bhajiya
From Saudi Arabia
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Pay bribe and take document. I know life is tough in India without reference and bribing because now I'm working in a government organization but I don't take bribes. :(:(:( But I've given bribes to many people. After giving a bribe, you can't kill that government official and cut him into pieces.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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I think people are getting me wrong here. Let me rephrase my question.
For those in favor of giving a bribe: "How will you convince your management to pay a bribe and get things done?"
For those not in favor of giving a bribe: "How will you justify your stand of not giving a bribe?"
Hope responses to these two questions will get me an answer I'm looking for.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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For those in favor of giving a bribe: "How will you convince your management to pay a bribe and get things done?"
For those not in favor of giving a bribe: "How will you justify your stand of not giving a bribe?"
Hope responses to these two questions will get me an answer I'm looking for.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Why should we convince the management? Anyways, you can show it by faking a bill from some hotel and presenting it as entertainment to guests. Refreshments, there are lots of ways to demonstrate the payment of bribe money as normal office expenses. The people who give bribes know it all! Else, be nice and put it all on your boss. Just inform your boss that the government official is demanding a bribe and let him make the decision. Escalate the case to your boss; it's his headache.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Nowadays, bribery is seen as a useful tool to expedite work processes. Entrepreneurs understand that accomplishing tasks from governmental or private entities without resorting to bribery can be challenging. Management values your negotiation skills - what they request versus what you offer equates to cost savings and the effort you put in to complete the work.
It may seem ironic that even educated professionals are endorsing this practice, but unfortunately, it has become a norm. Refusing to participate in bribery may lead to hindrances in our work.
Regards,
Pankaj Chandan
From India, New delhi
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It may seem ironic that even educated professionals are endorsing this practice, but unfortunately, it has become a norm. Refusing to participate in bribery may lead to hindrances in our work.
Regards,
Pankaj Chandan
From India, New delhi
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And you need not act like a big Indian by refusing to give a bribe because it is not your personal work; it's official work. If it were personal work, we could have used some other way, but why take tension for official work. It's as if you're saying only government people take bribes. Many HR managers take bribes from consultants. All those pretty HR executives commit scams in recruitments and take bribes. And here we have one person blaming the government for bribery. :-D :-D :-D
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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What do your values tell you to do? If bribing is against your values, and you actually do it, what precedent will you be setting? Does your company speak of honesty and integrity as its values? If it does, then making the right decision should not be a problem.
I am sure that there is a right way to do things; it may take a bit longer, but it's worth it. If you pay now, you will have to pay again and again. By the way, you are no longer a victim of the system; instead, you become the culprit. If you want it to be done right, get your papers straight. If you are being harassed because you did not pay up, then you always have the police, the anti-corruption bureau, and RTI (which I prefer).
I am also amazed at the answers given by some who suggest that bribing is the only option. I ask them, what is the difference between you and the corrupt politicians, babus, and goons?
Kenneth
From India, Mumbai
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I am sure that there is a right way to do things; it may take a bit longer, but it's worth it. If you pay now, you will have to pay again and again. By the way, you are no longer a victim of the system; instead, you become the culprit. If you want it to be done right, get your papers straight. If you are being harassed because you did not pay up, then you always have the police, the anti-corruption bureau, and RTI (which I prefer).
I am also amazed at the answers given by some who suggest that bribing is the only option. I ask them, what is the difference between you and the corrupt politicians, babus, and goons?
Kenneth
From India, Mumbai
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To justify your stand if you do not agree with bribery, speak of your values. Check if your company values integrity. If your company has already engaged in bribery in the past or is secretly known to partake in corrupt practices, then you must either put a halt to it or consider leaving the company. Ultimately, the decision will rest on you. How significant of a person do you aspire to be?
Regards,
Ken
From India, Mumbai
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Regards,
Ken
From India, Mumbai
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kenn when u suffer u know and will not speak so big big things and type such values, honesty etc,,, once u suffer then u know,,
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Chandan, Kenn, I liked your answers. Ravi and alike, how will it not help if you report the demand to the Anti-Corruption Cell or use RTI? Though rightly said by Kenn, it will take time, but then will it not be worth it?
Mridulika, you've expressed your 'thoda, thoda' opinion. Thanks. Expecting more opinions from the rest.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Mridulika, you've expressed your 'thoda, thoda' opinion. Thanks. Expecting more opinions from the rest.
Prashant
From India, Delhi
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Bribery is the easy option out, but then why do we always look at the easy way out? As an HR head, what culture and values do you want to set for your team? I think the correct way to go about government officials is contacts and not bribes. Find contacts, and the work would get done fast.
Because, if you take the decision once to give a bribe, where does the buck stop?
From India, Lucknow
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Because, if you take the decision once to give a bribe, where does the buck stop?
From India, Lucknow
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Dear Ravi,
I think you should stay out of this because the way you write suggests the ethics you follow and honesty are a million light years away from you.
This is for all other HR people except Ravi.
There is nothing like personal ethics as far as business is concerned.
I won't quote the name of the organization, but we all know its name, and even a movie was produced on its life.
Now, if we take that example, the company has reached the zenith within a time span of 20 years and is still expanding. The owners are among the richest people.
So, if we follow ethics, there is hardly any scope for development and growth. Let's recall the movie "CORPORATE"...
If we were to mark, there are heights of bribery and politics for, within, and against the competitors.
What is the climax? Bipasha Basu ends up having a miserable life, the only reason being that she took the blame for something she never committed because she thought the company would bail her out and help her, due to the long service she had provided to the company.
Now, let's say if the bribe is not given, the organization might take several months to dig out the papers and the deals it wants.
Any organization would not like to waste time. The cost-effective way is to find contacts in the political party and get your work done. If there are none, bribing is not wrong unless it is under the table.
I hope this will help us gain some insights into the way corporates work.
Regards,
Zalak Dave
From India, Madurai
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I think you should stay out of this because the way you write suggests the ethics you follow and honesty are a million light years away from you.
This is for all other HR people except Ravi.
There is nothing like personal ethics as far as business is concerned.
I won't quote the name of the organization, but we all know its name, and even a movie was produced on its life.
Now, if we take that example, the company has reached the zenith within a time span of 20 years and is still expanding. The owners are among the richest people.
So, if we follow ethics, there is hardly any scope for development and growth. Let's recall the movie "CORPORATE"...
If we were to mark, there are heights of bribery and politics for, within, and against the competitors.
What is the climax? Bipasha Basu ends up having a miserable life, the only reason being that she took the blame for something she never committed because she thought the company would bail her out and help her, due to the long service she had provided to the company.
Now, let's say if the bribe is not given, the organization might take several months to dig out the papers and the deals it wants.
Any organization would not like to waste time. The cost-effective way is to find contacts in the political party and get your work done. If there are none, bribing is not wrong unless it is under the table.
I hope this will help us gain some insights into the way corporates work.
Regards,
Zalak Dave
From India, Madurai
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I think I can provide the solution if you really are in this dilemma.
You can convince the management by showing them the criticality of document & if it is an NOC or License or Approval for something then you can do it through consultant.
Also if it is in Factory then any of the contractors can help you to get the document & see if this really is a condition then be yourself. Ask yourself what do you want?
You want to pay bribe or not? If you don’t want to pay then don’t pay. :icon1:
From India
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You can convince the management by showing them the criticality of document & if it is an NOC or License or Approval for something then you can do it through consultant.
Also if it is in Factory then any of the contractors can help you to get the document & see if this really is a condition then be yourself. Ask yourself what do you want?
You want to pay bribe or not? If you don’t want to pay then don’t pay. :icon1:
From India
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Dear Prashant,
Please inform management about any deficiencies, discrepancies, or concealed information in the documents currently in the possession of the official. If you refuse to offer a bribe, what are the potential consequences?
If you are completely confident that the documents you are handling with the government official are error-free and contain no hidden information, then you may approach management. If the official in question is requesting a bribe, but you are certain that the work can be completed without it, please communicate this to the management.
Thank you.
From India, Ludhiana
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Please inform management about any deficiencies, discrepancies, or concealed information in the documents currently in the possession of the official. If you refuse to offer a bribe, what are the potential consequences?
If you are completely confident that the documents you are handling with the government official are error-free and contain no hidden information, then you may approach management. If the official in question is requesting a bribe, but you are certain that the work can be completed without it, please communicate this to the management.
Thank you.
From India, Ludhiana
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Dear Prashant,
Do one thing if you don't mind. Appoint one employee (or an ex-employee) who belongs to that government agency (someone with good contacts with PF/ESI establishments) as an external consultant on a monthly basis. Route your work through them and get out of the mess.
I tell you – this will help you to a larger extent.
With regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
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Do one thing if you don't mind. Appoint one employee (or an ex-employee) who belongs to that government agency (someone with good contacts with PF/ESI establishments) as an external consultant on a monthly basis. Route your work through them and get out of the mess.
I tell you – this will help you to a larger extent.
With regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
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Dear Zalak,
Was the first movie Guru? - about Reliance?
:-)
Okay, guys, I am sorry, there is a serious discussion going on, and I was just being playful.
In reality, my friend had faced this problem, where he had to pay a huge amount to government officials to get an FPO license - despite giving all the right documents. We approached another higher official, and the best part was he demanded more + 1 Biryani in a famous hotel in Coimbatore.
So in such situations, we had no other choice.
When we fought against the first person and tried seeking justice, and a better person to deal with the license and verify our docs - we only realized we had to pay more.
Please correct me if I am wrong.. if in case, the Head HR says no to a bribe, is there another way out to get the approvals/procedures done smoothly? (despite giving all proper docs)?
NO - DO YOU KNOW WHY? Are all corporates doing the right thing? Paying tax on time? Being "Corporate Social Responsible"?
If a few of you have raised your hands, do you think that these few are enough to fight against such corruption?
NO... because... it's not one person who is asking for a bribe... it is just 1 out of 1000 who says no to a bribe. The change must start from the corporate itself. If all corporates follow the right procedures and say no to such things, such illegal activities will cease. But the problem is a few think why they should waste "time" over it - and pay the bribe.
And Prashant, I did not answer your question. With just 2 years of experience.. if I were asked to deal with such a situation, I would be emotional, and - that may cloud my judgment of the situation! :)
Thanks
From India, Madras
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Was the first movie Guru? - about Reliance?
:-)
Okay, guys, I am sorry, there is a serious discussion going on, and I was just being playful.
In reality, my friend had faced this problem, where he had to pay a huge amount to government officials to get an FPO license - despite giving all the right documents. We approached another higher official, and the best part was he demanded more + 1 Biryani in a famous hotel in Coimbatore.
So in such situations, we had no other choice.
When we fought against the first person and tried seeking justice, and a better person to deal with the license and verify our docs - we only realized we had to pay more.
Please correct me if I am wrong.. if in case, the Head HR says no to a bribe, is there another way out to get the approvals/procedures done smoothly? (despite giving all proper docs)?
NO - DO YOU KNOW WHY? Are all corporates doing the right thing? Paying tax on time? Being "Corporate Social Responsible"?
If a few of you have raised your hands, do you think that these few are enough to fight against such corruption?
NO... because... it's not one person who is asking for a bribe... it is just 1 out of 1000 who says no to a bribe. The change must start from the corporate itself. If all corporates follow the right procedures and say no to such things, such illegal activities will cease. But the problem is a few think why they should waste "time" over it - and pay the bribe.
And Prashant, I did not answer your question. With just 2 years of experience.. if I were asked to deal with such a situation, I would be emotional, and - that may cloud my judgment of the situation! :)
Thanks
From India, Madras
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And everyone... relax about Ravi. Who knows, maybe he had a worse situation. When this happens in reality for our own purpose, we will know the pain... the pain which comes from - your heart saying no, and your mind still wanting to get that approval done, because that's what you dreamt about and that's why you tried so hard. Just for someone's signature - we will feel like a fool at the end. Some people are able to pay, so they pay for saving time... others have to pay, else their competitor will pay and get THAT COMPETITIVE EDGE!
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Great info, Ravi (not the killing part), but on how to approach and take action against these corrupt people. But sometimes they prefer gifts and dinner parties. Despite being really rich and having enough monetary support to help them have dinner every day at a 3-star or 5-star restaurant, they still prefer others doing it for them. That is what makes me feel bad. It's not that they don't have the money to do it so they are demanding. It's like they have so much that even the next three generations can live peacefully with that money, but still demand such things from average people like us. I think if every corporate says no to such activities, then the corrupt government officials will start behaving the way they are meant to behave!
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear Friends,
We have read everyone's feedback. As per consensus, we all are perceiving that a bribe, whether it is in the form of goods, services, or money, is ethical, or in other words, that's how corporates operate.
Don't we think that after providing them a bribe, we feel suppressiveness or guilt within ourselves? Are we not encouraging everyone to do it? Are we not contributors to it?
After having so many doubts, does anyone have a similar perspective to go forward with it? Let's say we are capable of making their mouths shut, but what about the people who are not eligible to meet the demand?
Hi, are we creating a flowery bed and presenting everything very easily? Being educated and cultured individuals, are we making any difference in society?
So, Prashant, I perceive that you should talk with your management and make the issue transparent in front of them. We are authentically not sure about the consequences, but one thing we can commit to is keeping our own values alive, which will uphold our reputation in our own eyes.
Hi, maybe your management provides you with a way, or you can keep it as the last option. But please don't spoil yourself for the sake of these things.
Maybe I am getting emotional about it, but seriously, it is time to think and appreciate Ravi's, as well as Ash's, efforts on it.
Regards,
Rach
From India, Delhi
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We have read everyone's feedback. As per consensus, we all are perceiving that a bribe, whether it is in the form of goods, services, or money, is ethical, or in other words, that's how corporates operate.
Don't we think that after providing them a bribe, we feel suppressiveness or guilt within ourselves? Are we not encouraging everyone to do it? Are we not contributors to it?
After having so many doubts, does anyone have a similar perspective to go forward with it? Let's say we are capable of making their mouths shut, but what about the people who are not eligible to meet the demand?
Hi, are we creating a flowery bed and presenting everything very easily? Being educated and cultured individuals, are we making any difference in society?
So, Prashant, I perceive that you should talk with your management and make the issue transparent in front of them. We are authentically not sure about the consequences, but one thing we can commit to is keeping our own values alive, which will uphold our reputation in our own eyes.
Hi, maybe your management provides you with a way, or you can keep it as the last option. But please don't spoil yourself for the sake of these things.
Maybe I am getting emotional about it, but seriously, it is time to think and appreciate Ravi's, as well as Ash's, efforts on it.
Regards,
Rach
From India, Delhi
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Thanks, everyone for sharing your valuable thoughts on this issue. I have completely failed to understand one person here. Is he confused or simply a hypocrite? Because, in his last posting, where he appears to be giving tips on rooting out corruption, he always talked in favor of it. That's what makes him not credible to me.
As some of you have mentioned, and I agree, it will require a mammoth, collective, and focused effort if corruption is to be uprooted. Until such time, we have to live with this "necessary evil."
From India, Delhi
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As some of you have mentioned, and I agree, it will require a mammoth, collective, and focused effort if corruption is to be uprooted. Until such time, we have to live with this "necessary evil."
From India, Delhi
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Bang on Target, Ash,
It is Guru, but I avoided to quote a name. And Ash, I do agree with some of the points.
But what if the company is highly dependent on Government Policies and Philosophy?
Let's take a construction company, like DLF or GMR. Can we really imagine the amount that they are paying to the Government in order to win bids from the Government?
And if the corporates stop giving bribes, can we really answer how much the company will grow? Or let's say what steps can the government take in order to stop that company from working?
It can lead to serious consequences which no organization/company would like to undergo.
Even a company like TATA - though considered one of the most ethical companies to date, offers bribes but that bribery level is direct. (meaning: it offers bribery directly to leaders instead of intermediaries.) That is the reason why we actually don't know about TATA offering bribes!!
The bottom line remains invariable, Ash: "If we don't offer bribes, we won't know on which street we would be. But if we offer bribes, we know where we can reach."
From India, Madurai
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It is Guru, but I avoided to quote a name. And Ash, I do agree with some of the points.
But what if the company is highly dependent on Government Policies and Philosophy?
Let's take a construction company, like DLF or GMR. Can we really imagine the amount that they are paying to the Government in order to win bids from the Government?
And if the corporates stop giving bribes, can we really answer how much the company will grow? Or let's say what steps can the government take in order to stop that company from working?
It can lead to serious consequences which no organization/company would like to undergo.
Even a company like TATA - though considered one of the most ethical companies to date, offers bribes but that bribery level is direct. (meaning: it offers bribery directly to leaders instead of intermediaries.) That is the reason why we actually don't know about TATA offering bribes!!
The bottom line remains invariable, Ash: "If we don't offer bribes, we won't know on which street we would be. But if we offer bribes, we know where we can reach."
From India, Madurai
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Hi Folks, All of us have heard of phrase "Beg,Borrow,Steal", to get our workdone. Sometime we might have used these as well. Add "Bribe" to it.....
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Prashant,
As an HR head, I will explain the circumstances honestly to the government official for requisitioning the documents/release of payments to my organization and try to convince him in a better way as a gentle professional to cooperate with me being the HR head of an organization. I will also convince him with my talent and tactics to get my work done without any bribe. If possible, I would try to meet the higher officials and superiors in the government department to justify the stand of my organization to have a cordial look at us. A transparent deal may not face any challenges and problems in the matter of business transactions.
Suri Babu Komakula
From India, Vijayawada
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As an HR head, I will explain the circumstances honestly to the government official for requisitioning the documents/release of payments to my organization and try to convince him in a better way as a gentle professional to cooperate with me being the HR head of an organization. I will also convince him with my talent and tactics to get my work done without any bribe. If possible, I would try to meet the higher officials and superiors in the government department to justify the stand of my organization to have a cordial look at us. A transparent deal may not face any challenges and problems in the matter of business transactions.
Suri Babu Komakula
From India, Vijayawada
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You are correct, Zalak.
And yes, what can the government do about it? Ask for more bribes to curb bribery? I somehow feel that there will be no end to this corrupt practice. Big companies can get away with it, but for young entrepreneurs, won't this be a barrier? It is a real showstopper.
From India, Madras
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And yes, what can the government do about it? Ask for more bribes to curb bribery? I somehow feel that there will be no end to this corrupt practice. Big companies can get away with it, but for young entrepreneurs, won't this be a barrier? It is a real showstopper.
From India, Madras
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Hi gentlemen,
The bribe wine has been covered the tree of value. No doubt, we are only watering it by way of suggesting openly to give bribes. We inherited it and passing it to the descendants, pleading that it's an essential part of life in third-world countries. We are determined to bring the country glory of a developed nation by 2020 without eliminating the bribe wine. At least the HR professional should abstain from the idea of giving/offering bribes.
From India, Delhi
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The bribe wine has been covered the tree of value. No doubt, we are only watering it by way of suggesting openly to give bribes. We inherited it and passing it to the descendants, pleading that it's an essential part of life in third-world countries. We are determined to bring the country glory of a developed nation by 2020 without eliminating the bribe wine. At least the HR professional should abstain from the idea of giving/offering bribes.
From India, Delhi
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I think Zalak seems to have had a lot of unpleasant experiences with corruption, being in the power industry since the infrastructure segment is now the largest in terms of the quantums in corruption. Talking of the Tatas, their logic could be: if resorting to corrupt practices can't be avoided, better deal with the top, rather than the lower staff. But how many of the small companies will have the reach to approach the top guys in the government?
I am not sure if talking about the corruption in government departments or PSUs-which is a fact of life, as of now, at least-leads to any solution. For the simple reason that none of us have any say in it-except in a very limited way through the RTI. And how many of us have the time to spend to battle it-with all of us having to work to survive-with exceptions who can be counted on the fingers of one hand?
Like someone said earlier in this thread, corruption exists even in the private sector. And thanks to the IT boom since the past 10-15 years, this very profession of HRD turned out to be the primary cause-how and when can be shared, but it's irrelevant in this thread.
It's nice to lecture homilies, but practicing what we preach is pretty tough-I know from personal experience and which is where Ravi is right. I remember leaving the association with a couple of top-rated IT companies way back in 2000-2005, just because of the change of guard in the HR with guys passing subtle hints to share from the fees-despite being my company's major revenue earners. And when I took this up with a senior HR guy [he heads the HR function in a top-rated MNC @ Bangalore now], all he said was: why can't you go along with the tide and make money? And frankly, I have no regrets. I added other clients who shared similar ethics and values. All I can say is this: the situation isn't in my control, but what's in my control is my response to it. And participating in the corrupt act isn't the only possible response.
Why not begin naming those black sheep amongst our fraternity-based on each one's experiences within the private sector [be they HR professionals/managers or consultants]? Let's see how many of those who posted in CiteHR really mean what they said?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I am not sure if talking about the corruption in government departments or PSUs-which is a fact of life, as of now, at least-leads to any solution. For the simple reason that none of us have any say in it-except in a very limited way through the RTI. And how many of us have the time to spend to battle it-with all of us having to work to survive-with exceptions who can be counted on the fingers of one hand?
Like someone said earlier in this thread, corruption exists even in the private sector. And thanks to the IT boom since the past 10-15 years, this very profession of HRD turned out to be the primary cause-how and when can be shared, but it's irrelevant in this thread.
It's nice to lecture homilies, but practicing what we preach is pretty tough-I know from personal experience and which is where Ravi is right. I remember leaving the association with a couple of top-rated IT companies way back in 2000-2005, just because of the change of guard in the HR with guys passing subtle hints to share from the fees-despite being my company's major revenue earners. And when I took this up with a senior HR guy [he heads the HR function in a top-rated MNC @ Bangalore now], all he said was: why can't you go along with the tide and make money? And frankly, I have no regrets. I added other clients who shared similar ethics and values. All I can say is this: the situation isn't in my control, but what's in my control is my response to it. And participating in the corrupt act isn't the only possible response.
Why not begin naming those black sheep amongst our fraternity-based on each one's experiences within the private sector [be they HR professionals/managers or consultants]? Let's see how many of those who posted in CiteHR really mean what they said?
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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BTW, Zalak — you work in Adani Power. Does the name Bhavesh/Nilesh Adani sound familiar? Rgds, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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I quite agree with what Ken said because just because something is the norm does not make it normal. If I am the decision-maker, I will ensure that I keep my records straight with no avenue for any government official to cheat or involve me in illegal deals. When I have to report to a line manager, I will let him decide, and draw my conclusions from there. I believe there are still law-abiding citizens and companies in the world.
A note to all - Who are you?
From Nigeria
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A note to all - Who are you?
From Nigeria
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Well Members,
I think this is a very eye opening discussion going on here and brave are those who post in their views whatsoever.
It’s really hard to sometimes decide which road to follow. For the sake of an Organisational Objective, Yes ! we have to undress our Moral & Ethics and negotiate the bitter Truth. And at the same time we want our employees to hold Personal & Financial Integrity to the highest.
We Sow as we Reap !
Organisations Laminate bribe as ‘Entertainment Expenses’ and those who Claim in that account, no further explanations are asked. No One really care to know whether the person has really spend that much or is he just cooking up. Just Live On!
We don’t know how Much Public Money is used to fill up one’s personal Privilage.
Once while I was posted in one of my assignments, I came to meet a Local Press Reporter who wanted to be given a Parlty Sum to finance his group to & fro Expenses for attending a press Meet. Also he was demanding service for his car which had been damaged due to an accident which happened for the lack of street lights. We all knew that the Reporter had associations with a particular political party and had frequented to our office with some pretext or other before my joining. Somebody said me, if i didnot give him something, he may go forward to publish False reports that may damage the reputation of our company. But, I decided to take the matter and I literally banged him and pooh-poohed his inefficiency as a reporter, who could not campaign for better street illuminations to prevent such accidents in his own area by taking his own example through awareness in his Newspaper. The reporter never dared to enter to my office again.
The above was a case at Micro Level where we can have a comparative advantage if we put in our logic & reasoning along with Boldness & Courage. But when we are dealing with more Macro Level issues, we might not be so much effective since the bribe factor is widely conditioned into the system. Along with it is the serious problem of RED – TAPISIM which force many private companies to take short cuts to meet their competitive advantage. Many people get into this Vicious Circle without being wanted. And once started it becomes a way of life.
The Views of Ash, Ravi, Zalak were bold and based on reality. And Perticularly i liked Ms. Ash’s – Guru’s example. It’s a story of Individual Triumph over 'License Raj'.
But there is also other film to watch out – ‘Nayak’. It is also a Common Mans Triumph over ‘Bribery Raj’ but, if you have the courage…..
Regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
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I think this is a very eye opening discussion going on here and brave are those who post in their views whatsoever.
It’s really hard to sometimes decide which road to follow. For the sake of an Organisational Objective, Yes ! we have to undress our Moral & Ethics and negotiate the bitter Truth. And at the same time we want our employees to hold Personal & Financial Integrity to the highest.
We Sow as we Reap !
Organisations Laminate bribe as ‘Entertainment Expenses’ and those who Claim in that account, no further explanations are asked. No One really care to know whether the person has really spend that much or is he just cooking up. Just Live On!
We don’t know how Much Public Money is used to fill up one’s personal Privilage.
Once while I was posted in one of my assignments, I came to meet a Local Press Reporter who wanted to be given a Parlty Sum to finance his group to & fro Expenses for attending a press Meet. Also he was demanding service for his car which had been damaged due to an accident which happened for the lack of street lights. We all knew that the Reporter had associations with a particular political party and had frequented to our office with some pretext or other before my joining. Somebody said me, if i didnot give him something, he may go forward to publish False reports that may damage the reputation of our company. But, I decided to take the matter and I literally banged him and pooh-poohed his inefficiency as a reporter, who could not campaign for better street illuminations to prevent such accidents in his own area by taking his own example through awareness in his Newspaper. The reporter never dared to enter to my office again.
The above was a case at Micro Level where we can have a comparative advantage if we put in our logic & reasoning along with Boldness & Courage. But when we are dealing with more Macro Level issues, we might not be so much effective since the bribe factor is widely conditioned into the system. Along with it is the serious problem of RED – TAPISIM which force many private companies to take short cuts to meet their competitive advantage. Many people get into this Vicious Circle without being wanted. And once started it becomes a way of life.
The Views of Ash, Ravi, Zalak were bold and based on reality. And Perticularly i liked Ms. Ash’s – Guru’s example. It’s a story of Individual Triumph over 'License Raj'.
But there is also other film to watch out – ‘Nayak’. It is also a Common Mans Triumph over ‘Bribery Raj’ but, if you have the courage…..
Regards,
Jayesh Yohannan
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Your views are well said, Jayesh. Why not suggest solutions—where to begin, how to begin, and the direction to take? And I can only repeat what I said earlier: the situation isn't in my control, but what's in MY control is MY RESPONSE to it. Participating in the corrupt act ISN'T THE ONLY possible response.
I recollect a line from an old Telugu film song: The FIRST step is always alone.
Rgds, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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I recollect a line from an old Telugu film song: The FIRST step is always alone.
Rgds, TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hello there,
According to me, you will have to bribe the person to get your work done this way or that way. So, ask management frankly about it and try to negotiate on the bribe amount with the personnel. That's the most you can do to get your work done.
From India, Mumbai
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According to me, you will have to bribe the person to get your work done this way or that way. So, ask management frankly about it and try to negotiate on the bribe amount with the personnel. That's the most you can do to get your work done.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi all,
I am not an HR head, just a simple HR officer in an organization, but I hate bribery. Personally, I hate to give or take anything from anyone. It is a disgrace to society that there are people who think they need to survive with bribe money. I am actually teaching a group of students aged 20-25 part-time, and one of them said that, no matter what, bribery is necessary to survive. I was shocked; that boy has just started his career and already he is talking about bribery as a traditional and accepted thing. I will ask the same question - you all know that in Asia - Singapore's Corruption is ZERO - so if Singapore has arrived at this stage, then so can we all. Let us try. One person can make a difference.
The government needs to change, meaning our politicians need to be more ethical in their behavior. They should not be elected for serving themselves or the constituents they want to bribe but for the common good. This is my opinion.
From Mauritius, Port Louis
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I am not an HR head, just a simple HR officer in an organization, but I hate bribery. Personally, I hate to give or take anything from anyone. It is a disgrace to society that there are people who think they need to survive with bribe money. I am actually teaching a group of students aged 20-25 part-time, and one of them said that, no matter what, bribery is necessary to survive. I was shocked; that boy has just started his career and already he is talking about bribery as a traditional and accepted thing. I will ask the same question - you all know that in Asia - Singapore's Corruption is ZERO - so if Singapore has arrived at this stage, then so can we all. Let us try. One person can make a difference.
The government needs to change, meaning our politicians need to be more ethical in their behavior. They should not be elected for serving themselves or the constituents they want to bribe but for the common good. This is my opinion.
From Mauritius, Port Louis
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Greetings for the day!
It's not too difficult to handle such situations even in India. One can use the RTI Act. And even then, if the issue isn't resolved and the official demands a bribe and delays in providing the relevant documents, then just log on to Grievance Redress Mechanism in Government. It is a portal for public grievances against a Government of India employee. Believe me, it really works.
We should not support these practices of bribery, especially we educated groups should raise a voice against this and make a better future for our coming generations.
Best of luck!
From India, Mumbai
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It's not too difficult to handle such situations even in India. One can use the RTI Act. And even then, if the issue isn't resolved and the official demands a bribe and delays in providing the relevant documents, then just log on to Grievance Redress Mechanism in Government. It is a portal for public grievances against a Government of India employee. Believe me, it really works.
We should not support these practices of bribery, especially we educated groups should raise a voice against this and make a better future for our coming generations.
Best of luck!
From India, Mumbai
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Thanks Sateesh,
I have no problem with your view… It’s perfect as you said - since the situations undermining your decisions were different in your case and so it will be….And it will be so with many of our friends out there who deal with it daily over each cup of breakfast & Coffee.
And If you ask me about solutions.... I frankly have no clues…
But one thing.. Keep believing your value system and try minimizing the ‘Bribe’ wherever you can find it possible….
Never practice to involve these govt. officials for your personal objectives because I have seen people when they make a favour for a govt. official for their Organisational benefit, they try to use this connection for their own personal benefit regarding some matters. This will again give undue space for that official to be connected with you .. and wherever you go … the problem Follows ! ( like 'Hutch' ka 'Kutta' )
As I said before, if you have Long term association with a particular Department / Office in the Government for achieving your organizational benefits, try to bring an expert as a consultant, who had worked / is working in the same corridors (an existing Official may be preffered – since he will use his present links in the department for your organizations benefit) and utilize him for a partly sum of consulting fees. Give him some incentives if he performs a job with least Cost. This will get rid of unnecessary cash transactions.
Regards / Jayesh
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I have no problem with your view… It’s perfect as you said - since the situations undermining your decisions were different in your case and so it will be….And it will be so with many of our friends out there who deal with it daily over each cup of breakfast & Coffee.
And If you ask me about solutions.... I frankly have no clues…
But one thing.. Keep believing your value system and try minimizing the ‘Bribe’ wherever you can find it possible….
Never practice to involve these govt. officials for your personal objectives because I have seen people when they make a favour for a govt. official for their Organisational benefit, they try to use this connection for their own personal benefit regarding some matters. This will again give undue space for that official to be connected with you .. and wherever you go … the problem Follows ! ( like 'Hutch' ka 'Kutta' )
As I said before, if you have Long term association with a particular Department / Office in the Government for achieving your organizational benefits, try to bring an expert as a consultant, who had worked / is working in the same corridors (an existing Official may be preffered – since he will use his present links in the department for your organizations benefit) and utilize him for a partly sum of consulting fees. Give him some incentives if he performs a job with least Cost. This will get rid of unnecessary cash transactions.
Regards / Jayesh
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Vina has got the point very well.
All I can say to him/her is: Keep it up.
And YES Jayesh. You are right in the advice you mentioned. I have already been following it to the extent possible as mentioned below. But remember that EVERY situation is ALWAYS different…….but as long as one ensures that the COMMON FACTOR of ethics is maintained, the response will invariably be ethical. So it all depends on what the bottom-line EVERY INDIVIDUAL decides for himself/herself. A case in point here could be again the story of Satyam……..Raju’s bottomline was land, irrespective of the means. We know the rest of the story.
Most people have the typical 'crab mentality'.......meaning they can't see anyone to be different from them. Once they realise that a person is different they try to pull him/her down-for good or for bad [aren’t we doing the same thing…..trying to convince those who have no qualms about bribing that it’s wrong?]. And it's much easier to teach the bad than the good-since practising the good is pretty tough and the bad is very easy & convenient-more so given the basic human nature tending to lean towards the convenient & easier way of doing things.
Vina has quoted the right example--of S'pore. There's a saying in Sanskrit: Yatha raja, thatha praja-which means ‘as the ruler, so the ruled/follower’.
I am sure all would say—we can’t change our politicians. But look @ it this way---whatever the situation/position everyone of us is in-be it as a HR trainee or the Head of a Company or country-each has his/her own territory where he/she is the leader. Set your rules that HAVE to be followed within the limited environment that you are in-to the extent one can, since each of us has someone over our head to veto whatever/whichever we propose-the ultimate being HIM of course. With this attitude, one would have followed the right path to some extent at least. The difference will come about, however slowly...but it will surely come.
I know this sounds like a homily/lullabe/bhashan. But "where there's a will, there's a way". It all depends on WHAT YOU WANT TO WILL FOR [read para 1 above again].
I have had a few employees in the past who suggested to give in to the demands of the HR guys in client companies.....the end-result has always been they went out and the company still survived. To the limited extent where I can practice the core ethics & values, I do. And in situations where I can't, I look for ways where I can avoid getting corrupted, RATHER THAN looking for ways to take the short-cut. From exp, I can say, most often finding such ethical ways is POSSIBLE--WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
And to those pessimistic ones on this forum, let me ask you one thing: if you are married, begin to tell your kids that it’s OK to lie-if in an inconvenient situation, and don't bother to speak the truth. Let's see how many will readily agree.....I bet not one. Since all know "as you sow, so you reap-in all probability, their kids might begin to use this idea against their parents themselves. And when this is wrong, I fail to understand how they can justify corruption.
Let's not quote the example of others to get into the wrong direction.....if at all we wish to quote, let's learn from the examples of the ones who follow the right path.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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All I can say to him/her is: Keep it up.
And YES Jayesh. You are right in the advice you mentioned. I have already been following it to the extent possible as mentioned below. But remember that EVERY situation is ALWAYS different…….but as long as one ensures that the COMMON FACTOR of ethics is maintained, the response will invariably be ethical. So it all depends on what the bottom-line EVERY INDIVIDUAL decides for himself/herself. A case in point here could be again the story of Satyam……..Raju’s bottomline was land, irrespective of the means. We know the rest of the story.
Most people have the typical 'crab mentality'.......meaning they can't see anyone to be different from them. Once they realise that a person is different they try to pull him/her down-for good or for bad [aren’t we doing the same thing…..trying to convince those who have no qualms about bribing that it’s wrong?]. And it's much easier to teach the bad than the good-since practising the good is pretty tough and the bad is very easy & convenient-more so given the basic human nature tending to lean towards the convenient & easier way of doing things.
Vina has quoted the right example--of S'pore. There's a saying in Sanskrit: Yatha raja, thatha praja-which means ‘as the ruler, so the ruled/follower’.
I am sure all would say—we can’t change our politicians. But look @ it this way---whatever the situation/position everyone of us is in-be it as a HR trainee or the Head of a Company or country-each has his/her own territory where he/she is the leader. Set your rules that HAVE to be followed within the limited environment that you are in-to the extent one can, since each of us has someone over our head to veto whatever/whichever we propose-the ultimate being HIM of course. With this attitude, one would have followed the right path to some extent at least. The difference will come about, however slowly...but it will surely come.
I know this sounds like a homily/lullabe/bhashan. But "where there's a will, there's a way". It all depends on WHAT YOU WANT TO WILL FOR [read para 1 above again].
I have had a few employees in the past who suggested to give in to the demands of the HR guys in client companies.....the end-result has always been they went out and the company still survived. To the limited extent where I can practice the core ethics & values, I do. And in situations where I can't, I look for ways where I can avoid getting corrupted, RATHER THAN looking for ways to take the short-cut. From exp, I can say, most often finding such ethical ways is POSSIBLE--WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
And to those pessimistic ones on this forum, let me ask you one thing: if you are married, begin to tell your kids that it’s OK to lie-if in an inconvenient situation, and don't bother to speak the truth. Let's see how many will readily agree.....I bet not one. Since all know "as you sow, so you reap-in all probability, their kids might begin to use this idea against their parents themselves. And when this is wrong, I fail to understand how they can justify corruption.
Let's not quote the example of others to get into the wrong direction.....if at all we wish to quote, let's learn from the examples of the ones who follow the right path.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Prashant,
Before taking a decision, please always remember that this is official work and not your personal work. If a government official asks for a bribe to get things done, first escalate this to your higher-ups. If the senior management has no issues with it, then go ahead and bribe the official to get the work done ASAP. Remember, in today's world, TIME IS MONEY. You should not delay any official work just because of this small issue. As far as official expenses are concerned, the expenses incurred in bribing the government official can be shown as miscellaneous expenses, like treating government officials in hotels for an official dinner or an official party, etc.
Regards,
Debashish Pal
From India, Delhi
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Before taking a decision, please always remember that this is official work and not your personal work. If a government official asks for a bribe to get things done, first escalate this to your higher-ups. If the senior management has no issues with it, then go ahead and bribe the official to get the work done ASAP. Remember, in today's world, TIME IS MONEY. You should not delay any official work just because of this small issue. As far as official expenses are concerned, the expenses incurred in bribing the government official can be shown as miscellaneous expenses, like treating government officials in hotels for an official dinner or an official party, etc.
Regards,
Debashish Pal
From India, Delhi
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